Updated Eratosphere Procedures for Members and Moderators
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While I haven't fully processed the implications (positive, negative or indifferent) of all of these changes yet, I want to at least express my appreciation that something decisive HAS been done. Speaking for myself alone, that was my biggest concern regarding the recent incidents...that it would be met with silence and inaction.
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I'm in agreement with Shaun. This is a good, positive step, and I'm pleased to note that comments and communications (and withdrawals) were noted, and there has been a reaction. Thanks to all involved.
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Alex--
While I appreciate the work you've done on this, you still don't seem to grasp the basic point--there was a general groundswell of anger against certain moderators, as well as a concern with over-moderation in general, and the reaction was to squelch it, because, apparently, "What would the neighbors think?" Well, those who actually resided here for some time felt that they were subject to too much interference and a habit on the part of the Administration of writing a new rule every time "something" (often fairly minor in itself) came up. What we have here seems to be symptomatic of an unresponsive and, frankly, repressive board culture, which seeks to curb the excesses of the very recent past (which is something, I guess) but does not get to the root of the problem--namely, that many long-time members felt that their grievances were not being taken seriously, and that they were being hounded publicly, encouraged to respond privately, and having private correspondence held against them. In the interests of "working within the system," I attempted to log into the Eratosphericals area to register my thoughts according to stated procedure, yet my password did not work. Hence I'm stating my position here. As for whether this is a temporary return or a more permanent one in my case remains to be seen. Quincy |
Is Eratosphericals running yet? It rejected my password, too.
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My password didn't work either.
David R. |
Thank you, Quincy, for your frank opinions. As I mentioned in the updated procedures, we can try and we have tried to address everyone's concerns, but it's impossible to satisfy everyone no matter what is done to address those concerns. Heck, even if we let total anarchy prevail, I'm sure there'll still be complaints! But I hope that these updated procedures are a step forward and sufficient at this time for most of us to be willing to give it a try in good faith instead of outright dismissal, and indeed move forward, than was the case before.
Cheers, ...Alex p.s. - see your PM. |
Eratosphericals password has been emailed to all active members who qualify for access, so check the inbox associated with your Eratosphere profile email. After you're logged in to the Sphere, you need to use that password/access key as an additional step to get into that forum or the sub-forums.
If you didn't get it and feel you should have, PM me. ...Alex P.S. - This is a good time to make sure your profile email address is still valid, else Eratosphere notices such as the one described above won't make it to you! To verify or update your email address go here. |
I'm practically an original member, and I was the original moderator, so I just wanted to add my divided thoughts. On the one hand, being a moderator here is tough and I stopped doing it because I just couldn't take the childish abuse any more. On the other hand, I have experienced problems with a nasty moderator, and took a year-long sabbatical until that person left as a moderator. There's clearly merit on both sides of the complaints.
My conclusion is that we have to try much harder to leave the flaming culture of the Internet at the door and try to be a lot more civil to one another. I believe it was Aristotle who rejected the theory that the venting of anger released it. Regular venting of anger just trains you to be better at being angry, which is why I never approved of opening up General Talk to explosive nonliterary issues. Accordingly, I'm dubious that a special board to continue some of these savage debates is really a good idea, though I admire Alex's intent. |
Well, I'm offering my thanks. Encouraging members to express grievances by pm and on alternate boards will only work if the members believe the administration will respond to reasonable grievances. This seems designed to address recent concerns about repressive and non-responsive board culture. We shall see. I support it.
Frank |
Frank's right about the membership needing to feel it's being listened to for this to work, and that's a matter of implementation rather than structure.
Editing in: As for Mike Juster's point about GT--most of the incidents that provoked the current exodus occurred on TDE (or concerned TDE), and occurred as a result of interactions between members and a few moderators rather than arising from contentious political debates on GT. A large part of the anger evident (at times wearily so) on the Exile board was to do not so much with a desire for emotional validation (though there was that, I think) as much as a desire to set the record straight about what many of us feel was abusive behavior on a fairly large scale. Rightly or wrongly. I've managed to get in to the semi-hidden boards and have lodged my complaint and main stumbling block to coming back permanently, and will make more specific or pointed observations through the indicated channels. We'll see how it goes. |
Alex,
I appreciate the thought and effort that went into these new procedures and policies. I think they do in fact respond to some of my specific concerns. What remains, as others have pointed out, is the question of consistent implementation. But I do see this as a good, positive step. David R. |
Although I can log in to Eratosphericals and see that there are is a post in two separate threads, I cannot see those posts. When I click on the link, I get a message that reads "There are no posts in this forum." What am I doing wrong?
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Ah...my mistake. I did not read carefully enough. So only a moderator can move a thread to the Pub for continued, private membership discussion (but none of us can start a discussion there), and though we may post grievances in the other two sections, they are read privately by moderators, acted upon by moderators and not open to general discussion. I believe I have seen all I need to see.
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But I'm willing to give it a try, if somewhat skeptically. Quincy |
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David R. |
Alex and Maryann - there appears to be a discrepancy between what is explained in Alex's letter, and what is available on the new Forums - and it makes a big difference in terms of function.
I'm afraid I may have misread the new measures as well. But I'm puzzled and not sure. On the one hand, all I see that allows open discussion is the new private "public" Forum apparently intended to deal with publications. The two other Moderators or Administrators forums do not allow public discussion - I fail to see how this is significantly different from the old "send us a PM" policy, which is what I believe prompted Quincy's and Marybeth's reactions. But the letter states, "She (Maryann) might move posts deemed suitable for members only to this private forum where all members with access privilege are still be able to view it or post to it." I gather from this that the new Forum called "Pub" will also serve for broad, member-based discussions of "turbulent" topics, and not just for publication discussions. If so, I'm a reasonably happy camper, because essentially the ability is provided to carry on an open conversation on sensitive issues. If not, I agree with what Quincy had to say. Without an open conversation, where members (with a set minimum number of posts, to assure serious commitment) look in and provide further feedback and input, Administrators are not going to get a good sense of what the membership feels. It encourages more misunderstandings, more unhelpful backchatter. I think a clarification of the apparent difference between Maryann's statement, and the structure of the Forum, would help. (It might simply be that no discussions have been moved there, so no thread appear yet. I can't tell.) I also recognize that open discussions can get out of hand. We're all going to have to work on that one. It is my sense that the Administration does realize that a great many of the problems which have occurred are due to the insensitivity and overreactions cited in the opening section of Alex's letter; and hopefully the membership also realizes that if we meet a more open and reasonable Administration approach with a more reasonable and less passionate/accusatory response, it will work to everybody's benefit. Ultimately, it boils down to what David just said. Time and good will. |
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Continuing the clarifications, in Dear Moderators, a member starts a thread between him or her and moderators. Dear Administrators operates the same way except that it's between the member and the Administrators. Michael C. & others who asked, I hope that also clarifies things for you also. ...Alex |
Michael,
Alex should probably answer for clarity's sake, but as I understand things, threads from public forums can be removed to the Eratosphericals area where they would appear where "There are no posts in this forum" now appears. Then only people with the appropriate security clearance will see it. As for the Dear Mod and Admin threads -- I think that will cut down on PMs for mods and admins when there is an issue. It will also ensure that communications with mods will be accessibel to the whole staff, and make lodging complaints easier. Alex, I cross-posted with you. Question: if warranted, appropriate, and agreed, would Admins be able to grant another member access to a given member's complaint thread. David R. |
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...Alex |
Dear Mr. Pepple, One of the best points in your revised guidelines is that most Eratosphere staff have jobs, in addition to running Eratosphere. I have frequently noticed, in life, that ALL clubs/societies/interest groups are composed of three categories:
1. The people who form committees and do all the donkey work. 2. People who use the facilities and appreciate the extra work put in by people in category 1. 3. People who spend their time nit-picking, complaining and taking constant pot-shots at people in category 1. I think you'll find that a fair proportion of these DON'T have jobs. That's why they have so much time for whinging. Go on and prosper, sir, you and all your colleagues. You do a fine job, as far as I can see. A little more acknowledgement of that from the general membership wouldn't come amiss. Peter Wyton. |
For you all, a traditional British toast, from the disappearing world of the working shepherd:
If I had store, By sheep and fold, I'd give you gold. But since I'm poor By crook and bell, I wish you well. And I do. |
I haven't read the entire thread yet, but I want to thank Alex, Maryann, and staff for the attention given to complaints and for the constructive solutions offered. And happy holidays to you all!
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You know what I think could solve the concern over the transparency issue?
Having the Dear Moderators and Dear Administrators forums read-only to all but the original poster, mods and admin. That way people can read the suggestions, grievances etc. and the mod responses without cluttering up the thread itself. That would circumvent all the earlier concerns about "behind closed doors" (i.e.: PM) moderation. |
Shaun, transparency remains in the usual Eratosphere conversation forums and for threads deemed suitable to be moved from those forums to Eratosphericals. See http://www.ablemuse.com/erato/showpo...1&postcount=20 . Yes, we're for transparency, but that's not an invitation to flame the Sphere to ashes and bury it's main focus of poetry and critique, because after all Eratosphere guidelines still apply in all cases. What we're done is simply strike a fair balance between all these sometime conflicting requirements. Dear Moderators and Dear Administrators provides everyone with something beyond PM -- a mechanism for having a personal discussion with all moderators or the administrators, without overwhelming them with a free-for-all. Furthermore, it's private nature between member and staff allows frank exchanges that are not always possible in a public setting. Finally, as much as some don't mind broadcasting such discussions to everyone, there are others members who prefer to keep them confidential.
As I've stated in earlier post, we cannot please everyone here due to differences in beliefs and temperament. The best we can do is find the best compromise and I believe that's what this new system is. Cheers, ...Alex ...Alex |
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I've modded at other boards of equivalent size before and have seen the sheer vitriol that has been leveled at mods (myself included) for not being completely open about the process. If the guidelines are absolutes, and there is a clear means of dealing with breaches, then there shouldn't be any need for secrecy or closed doors, should there? Just my $.02. |
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...Alex |
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If a thread doesn't disappear, but gets moved behind closed doors, out of the sight of forum members, isn't it rather the same as the "tree falling in the forest when no-one's around" musing? In other words, the thread will still be disappearing...just disappearing to a small room with only the moderators to view it. |
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I believe the idea is that such threads would remain fully accessible to members with access to the private Eratosphericals area. David R. |
Alex,
I think members are confused about the physical layout in Eratosphericals. Maybe you should create a dummy thread to demonstrate where removed threads would end up so members can see how it would work. David R. |
I've just created the dummy thread. I created it in GT and moved it to Eratosphericals.
What I see on GT is the six-hour redirect I left. If I click on Eratosphericals and scroll down, under Pub, Dear Moderator, and Dear Administrator, I see a separate block, where the moved post appears. Now, I can never assume that I'm seeing what others will see because I've got superpowers. So please tell me whether this matches up with what you all are seeing! Oops, cross-posted with Alex. |
Sure, David. I'll have one up for those who want to kick the tires of the new system!
Editing back in: Maryann has beat me to it and created a dummy thread there (titled, "A test post, to be moved".) ...Alex |
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Cheers, ...Alex |
Help
I've read this thread 3 times and as I understand it, I've been a member since 2001 and I've posted 88 times, so, does this mean I should be able to post/view Eratosphericals ? Or, am I perceived as a "lurker"? With my schedule and lack of confidence with critiques and my painstaking process of revising my work, I fear I may be in the lurker category, but this would be a punishment I don't think I fairly deserve :confused:
I've been trying to find a somewhat recent post entitled "Rabbit Nest" and before I knew it, it was off the FV boards before I could post my revision. I have no back up of comments to thread to and I wanted to know if there is a way to retrieve posts that have disappeared? Also, I wanted to know if the Poetry contest is still happening and if a winner was announced. I can't seem to find any info that I can access to answer this question. Thanks for your time and patience. I get overwhelmed in here sometimes - okay a lot of the time. However, I just finished teaching for the year. I will be more active on the boards - promise! :) Many thanks, Tiffany |
Dear Tiffany,
Thanks for your note. On the FV question: the poetry boards get purged (we call it pruning) once a month. Anything that hasn't been replied to for thirty days goes poof. I try to give 72 hour's warning before it happens, and I'm a little slow sometimes, kinda by design, so people don't lose stuff, But for many reasons it's good this pruning happens. The 15 critique rule is designed to keep the boards from being swamped by enthusiastic newbies and the verse versions of remoras. Since you've been a member since 2001, it's hard to believe you would fit into either camp... ;) So here's my best advice: Post away! Save early, save often. And have fun... Thanks, Bill |
Hello Tiffany,
Check your PM about access to Eratosphericals. Cheers, ...Alex |
Dear Bill, thank you for the clarification and the encouragement!
Dear Alex, Thank you for your email! Happy posting :) Tiffany |
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