[Christine Whittemore]

Well, yet again, what I would say has been said, but just want to echo those who say it should be "Columbus's" and also the last line is baffling.

The chaos of the physical place Columbus Circle does come across to me successfully, though;and as it's at or near a corner of Central Park, the park reference works...

Is there meant to be some echo of Donne, with his "Oh my America! My new-found-land......" ??

[Rick Mullin]

I like Anothai's reading of this sonnet.

I dislike R.A. Briggs' politically correct assertion that a reference to Columbus requires the overt condemnation she prescribes. Might CC's spearheading a genocide actually be at work here more subtly? I like how a complicated character with a superficially uncomplicated resume works behind the scenes. The last line, I think has Columbus covered or more or less closes the case for coverage.

RM

[R.A. Briggs]

Originally Posted by Rick Mullin

I dislike R.A. Briggs' politically correct assertion that a reference to Columbus requires the overt condemnation she prescribes. Might CC's spearheading a genocide actually be at work here more subtly?
RM

Rick, could you elaborate on how CC's spearheading genocide might be at work more subtly in this poem? I never prescribed an overt condemnation of CC; I just didn't think the poem engaged with the genocidal aspects of him at all. I'd be happy to be wrong, and even happier if somebody would take the time to explain how I'm wrong.

[Roger Slater]

I don't think the dark side of Columbus is in evidence here at all, but I don't think it's a problem in the poem. The poem is one person talking to another, not an omniscient narrator speaking about history, and it's pretty rare for people who haven't read Howard Zinn to view Columbus as a genocidal maniac rather than a larger-than-life explorer. Certainly the people in New York don't spit on the ground when someone says "Columbus Circle," and this poem does not invite an historical assessment of Columbus by praising him in any way -- it builds not on his qualities as a human being, but on the nautical references naturally suggested by the uncontroversial fact that he was, indeed, an explorer who set sail and made a huge discovery of a "new world." So, whatever flaws this poem has, and I think it has many, I don't blame it for mentioning Columbus without mentioning he was a very bad person.

[Rick Mullin]

Hi R.A.

Well I was being a bit facetious. And I did couch it in "Might"~,:^)

As I said, I like Anothai's reading, which suggests that N is a bit more delusional than if he were addressing anyone in particular. He is misled by the mistaken Columbus, whose mistake in the poem seems to be the one about landing in the Indies.

But the bigger point Roger makes and that I tried to make, is that only the most stridently political approach to reading and writing poetry would require that a poem in which Columbus is a central figure address his being the wedge of worldwide Western European cultural genocide. There are big statue of Columbus in Barcelona and in Nassau, The Bahamas, as well as in New York, and these are allowed to stand on the front end narrative. We have a Columbus Avenue and our Capitol is in the District of Columbia. Etc. One can write a poem in which a bumbling George W. Bush appears without mentioning the Iraq war, for instance. There is a great episode of the Sopranos that addresses Columbus, by the way. It leaves very little to be said.

[R.A. Briggs]

Thanks to Rick and Roger for answering my question (and for not including assessments of my character or intelligence). I am persuaded that I probably made the wrong assessment of why this poem is not aesthetically good. (It's easier to identify that something is not working than why.) I thought that Columbus was the most interesting figure in the vicinity of this poem, and therefore my complaint that the poem had gone vaguely in the direction of interesting things without properly addressing them. Well, back to re-articulating why I didn't like the poem, and which interesting places the poem could go, if it wanted to be a better poem.

[Rick Mullin]

R.A.--I didn't intend to assess your character or intelligence. You have impressed me with the latter since you've been here, and the former follows in the same direction. I just disagree with your first comment, I think rather strongly, and said why. I may have misunderstood you.

Rick

[R.A. Briggs]

Rick, that was meant to be a real thank you, not a sarcastic thank you. (I was a bit worried after Orwn's comment, and was really happy to have a rational conversation in which I learned something.)

Add: I also know that discussions of topics that have a political angle can get heated on the Internet. Another reason I appreciate it.

[David Danoff]

I take it the heart of this is the idea of Columbus's "mistake." Somehow, there's a glimmer of fear that the N isn't what the "you" is really looking for. And what will the "you" do if they realize their mistake? Will they turn away before reaching the destination? Will they be surprised and pleased at the unexpected discovery?

Or something. The execution is pretty muddled.

[L.M. Price]

The subway crew does seem to come out of nowhere, and I don't see who/what it would relate to in the voyage of Columbus. Maybe if it was a taxi driver shouting it was a mistake.

Thinking of that, ha, I just got a wild image of Columbus's ships as a fleet of taxis careering about.