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  #11  
Old 07-13-2017, 01:57 PM
James Brancheau James Brancheau is offline
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Having to say that un is worse than trump is not where we want to be.

Last edited by James Brancheau; 07-13-2017 at 09:15 PM. Reason: Subtracted my added. Nothing I haven't said a hundred times before.
  #12  
Old 07-13-2017, 04:58 PM
James Brancheau James Brancheau is offline
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Beyond the Trump disaster, which I hope takes down as many conservative b.s. peddlers as possible, there has been a steady decline of a middle class. Just from my own experience. A firefighter's salary allowed me to go to a private school, my family to have two cars (one of them new) and a house-- and a family vacation every year. So what changed?
  #13  
Old 07-13-2017, 11:26 PM
William A. Baurle William A. Baurle is offline
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All this happened since Trump's been in office?

What exactly happened, Jim?

***

From my pitiful perspective, the AZ minimum wage went from 8.05 USD to 10.00 USD, so that is actually some improvement in my situation. Not that the Don is INTO such a thing as a minimum wage. I believe he is against such things.

Nonetheless, my financial situation has improved by a tiny margin.

I don't hang with the absurd social myth of "classes" of people, but I do see the rich getting ridiculously richer while the lower income people are finding things harder and harder...but what does this have to do with North Korea, or the ethical question raised in this thread:

Should the US intercept a nuclear missile aimed toward an American target, or NOT intercept it, for fear of possible harm or death to innocent lives, most likely over the ocean?

Ann has said that Bingo (USA) would be more guilty than Bozo (North Korea), should there be collateral damage and/or civilian casualties (or gracious, lovely beasties in the ocean), while I claim that Bozo, who fired the first missile, would be far more guilty.

Last edited by William A. Baurle; 07-14-2017 at 12:43 AM.
  #14  
Old 07-14-2017, 02:29 AM
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Ann Drysdale Ann Drysdale is online now
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No. Ann was trying to move the ethical question from specifics to hypothesis, in the hope that this might clarify the position, not of America or North Korea but of the rest of the terrified world.

She is happy to accept the "Loony Lefty" label but is as saddened by the gibe about the sea-creatures as she is horrified by all the underlying assumptions.

She remembers chastising one of her own children for an act of destruction and emphasising the fact that, although the actual damage was almost accidental, the wailed excuse of "Steven started it" compounded the offence.

With sad hindsight, she remembers that she had watched the two of them winding each other up and knew that it would end in tears, but had not intervened. Her bad.

And the word "obliterate" makes her think of Daleks.

Best leave the silly old sod out of the conversation. She wouldn't know a Good Guy if he tapped her on the shoulder and bit her on the arse.
  #15  
Old 07-14-2017, 02:40 AM
William A. Baurle William A. Baurle is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quincy Lehr View Post
On it.

Seriously, though, Fox wants this war every bit as badly is CNN wants to ramp up conflict with the Rooskies, and it shows in the shoddy reporting. Indeed, one needn't be an apologist for North Korea to note that there have been plenty of American provocations, AS THIS LINK, ALSO FROM FOX NEWS, MAKES CLEAR. Of the two countries in question, one has actually used nuclear weapons, and indeed, considered USING THEM IN THE KOREAN WAR, or at least wanted to give the impression that such a thing was possible.
In my efforts to be the good guy, I was charitable towards Quincy, and actually thought that he was "On it".

But, to address that first link, in ALL CAPS, that Quincy provided:

These are clearly NOT provocations, but a formal show of force. It is reminiscent of what the Truman administration did when the Japanese were showing zero regard for the Geneva Convention during WWII, when the US had developed a means of literally castrating Japan and robbing that extremely militaristic nation of its "fighting spirit". Japan was warned, explicitly, and informed that there was a weapon that could (would!) devastate entire cities. The Japanese authorities did not take heed, deeming their Emperor a god on earth, or some such. Nonetheless, Japan continued its aggression, and even ignored months (MONTHS) of warnings from the US:

Quote:
For several months, the U.S. had dropped more than 63 million leaflets across Japan warning civilians of air raids. Many Japanese cities suffered terrible damage from aerial bombings; some were as much as 97% destroyed. LeMay thought that leaflets would increase the psychological impact of bombing, and reduce the international stigma of area-bombing cities. Even with the warnings, Japanese opposition to the war remained ineffective. In general, the Japanese regarded the leaflet messages as truthful with many Japanese choosing to leave major cities, the leaflets caused such concern amongst the Empire of Japan that they ordered for anyone caught in possession of a leaflet to be arrested.[86][87] Leaflet texts were prepared by recent Japanese prisoners of war because they were thought to be the best choice "to appeal to their compatriots".[88] - Wiki
Full article here, from which the above is taken:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atomic...asaki#Leaflets

***

Does ANYONE feel good about those fucking bombs? Nope. As a matter of fact, the very pilots that dropped them were on the ground rendering first aid in Japan, the very next day.

The bombs forestalled a land invasion and infantry war that would have killed many more military fighters as well as civilians, than those atrocious, hellish bombs. Young children were being recruited in Japan to fight. Their selfish and self-aggrandized leaders, stuffed full of ancient militant codes of honor, would have been GLAD to sacrifice them.

As most people know, after the second bomb (which went off target, killing far less people than it may have [thank GOD], the Japanese finally surrendered, formally. A good many of the military higher ups offed themselves in high style, taking extremely sharp blades and gutting themselves with honor: but not before writing that all important haiku.

And this is how it goes in our silly world, because men like Buddha, Jesus of Nazareth, and Benedictus Spinoza, from the Netherlands, are very rare birds, and their words are not paid the attention they deserve.

Last edited by William A. Baurle; 07-14-2017 at 03:00 AM.
  #16  
Old 07-14-2017, 02:55 AM
William A. Baurle William A. Baurle is offline
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Ann,

May I offer my formal, knees in the dirt, nose in the dirt, apology?

You are a lady, and, believe it or not, since you are a lady, I would lay down my life for you, were it necessary.

I know, I know, that sounds like Hollywood, don't it? It sounds unreal. BUT, there are men like this that say what they mean, and mean what they say, come hell or high water.

I'd rather die, than cause a gracious lady, and a poet no less, a single moment of harm.

Jayne knows this, as does our Julie Steiner.

I am sorry for not understanding what you were saying. I'm a numbnuts.

Onwards!

And where the hell is Quincy?
  #17  
Old 07-14-2017, 03:34 AM
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Ann Drysdale Ann Drysdale is online now
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Your apology is accepted, William. Thank you.
  #18  
Old 07-14-2017, 03:45 AM
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John Whitworth John Whitworth is offline
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Do you now, I never give this a thought. There are many things to worry about, death and taxes and whether Joe Root will score a century but North Korea... nah! Leave it to the Donald.
  #19  
Old 07-14-2017, 05:36 AM
Emitt Evan Baker Emitt Evan Baker is offline
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http://foreignpolicy.com/2016/05/09/...shima-bombing/
  #20  
Old 07-14-2017, 05:17 PM
James Brancheau James Brancheau is offline
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God. Not worth it.

Last edited by James Brancheau; 07-14-2017 at 06:45 PM.
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