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  #21  
Old 07-23-2017, 06:14 PM
Aaron Novick's Avatar
Aaron Novick Aaron Novick is offline
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I was not referring to feedback you left on a poem I posted for critique. I assume all such critiques are made in good faith and have, to my recollection, never complained about any of them. If my memory is faulty on this point, I was in the wrong.

I was referring, rather, to the PM you sent me the last time I responded to you in a political thread, in which you gave me a variant of this "intelligence ≠ wisdom" lecture, only that time with a gratuitous dig at my poems.

There's more that might be said, but I don't think any good would come of it. I did want to defend myself, publicly, from the charge that I resent any critiques that have been made on my poems. Being here has made me a better poet, and I'm grateful to everyone who has taken time from their days to contribute to that.



Since this is going to start a new page, here's what Bill said at the bottom of the last page that he hoped would be the basis of future discussion in this thread:

Quote:
Originally Posted by William A. Baurle View Post
One can be a "conservative" and still despise DT. One can be a libertarian, like Penn Jillette, and still recognize that a touchy alpha-male soccer coach in the White House is a BAD idea.

Once again, in case it was missed:

I did not vote for him. I didn't vote at all in the last elections, because I could not say 'Yes' to anyone that was running without feeling guilty. I voted for _ _ in 2012. (PM me if you want to know who.)

I do not support or admire him.

America is in BIG trouble. I still say that the best thinkers are somewhere in the middle.
  #22  
Old 07-23-2017, 06:38 PM
Roger Slater Roger Slater is offline
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I'm not sure what it has to do with this thread, but since Bill brought it up, I did not "lay into" Aaron's poems or "insult" them or Aaron. I offered critiques that were honest opinions, and I never sensed any resentment from Aaron. I later found some of Aaron's poems to be far more successful than his earlier ones, but my approach to offering comments did not change at all. Only the poems that I was responding to changed.
  #23  
Old 07-23-2017, 08:04 PM
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Douglas G. Brown Douglas G. Brown is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Moonan View Post
John, I read through the entire Rod Dreher piece in The American Conservative as well as the accompanying 118 reactions/comments to it.


Just now I'm hearing that Trump has floated the idea that he has the power to pardon himself. It grows and grows...
Maybe he should hang a picture of Louis XIV (l'etat, c'est moi) beside that of Andrew Jackson.
  #24  
Old 07-23-2017, 08:57 PM
William A. Baurle William A. Baurle is offline
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I think I'm finally beginning to understand why many of the people who share my views are always reminding one another of something:

"Never apologize to these people [regressive liberals]. They'll take it as a sign of weakness."

Okee doke. No more apologies.
  #25  
Old 07-23-2017, 09:10 PM
William A. Baurle William A. Baurle is offline
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-WL7IC5unXw

Matt Damon on Ellen, and how easily things can be ripped out of context and used to impute guilt to someone who is not guilty of anything. This is a tactic used on the right and the left.
  #26  
Old 07-24-2017, 07:59 AM
Emitt Evan Baker Emitt Evan Baker is offline
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Interesting Chomsky piece.


http://nordic.businessinsider.com/ch...scenes-2017-7/
  #27  
Old 07-24-2017, 09:57 AM
Max Goodman Max Goodman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by William A. Baurle View Post
I think I'm finally beginning to understand why many of the people who share my views are always reminding one another of something:

"Never apologize to these people [regressive liberals]. They'll take it as a sign of weakness."

Okee doke. No more apologies.
Apologizing doesn't make a person look weak. Being unable to admit when one has been wrong makes a person look weak. Other online behavior can create the impression, too, for instance: Making ad hom attacks. Announcing publically that one is leaving a site. Coming right back after such an announcement.

(Though I've seen accuations of ad hom attacks, I don't know whether they have been made here recently and I don't care enough to go back through posts in threads I've only sporadically visited--like this one--to look for them.)

This post does not advance the discussion. It exposes me as petty. I admit this and I apologize.
  #28  
Old 07-25-2017, 01:39 AM
William A. Baurle William A. Baurle is offline
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Hey, I'm one of the nicest, gentlest people here.

My 16 year record should show that.

If you were able somehow, to see who wrote these two phrases more often than anyone else, from 2001 until the present day:

I'm sorry
I apologize
I bet 3 dollars that it would be me.
  #29  
Old 07-25-2017, 07:17 AM
Roger Slater Roger Slater is offline
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It's not how often you apologize that counts, but how often you fail to do so when it's called for. Some people here rarely apologize but rarely give offense.

Sorry about that.
  #30  
Old 07-25-2017, 10:30 AM
Jim Moonan Jim Moonan is offline
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"Okee doke. No more apologies."

(Bill, now might be a good time... There's got to be something you would have taken back... It's helps to reset)

I don't hear much in the way of extremist ideology here. Left or Right. Extremist ideology is worthless at best and at worst is the problem that prevents the problem from being addressed.
I think there is a distinction that can be made between speaking with emotion and speaking with passion. Passion is bridled emotion. Emotional arguments are made with blinders on. Passionate ones are made with eyes wide open.

Enter Jerry Brown. His mindset for seeking solutions is impressive. As a political thinker he has evolved beautifully over the years. Listen to this interview with NPR yesterday. What do people think of him? I think he's a principled, pragmatic, visionary thinker.
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