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  #91  
Unread 03-26-2015, 05:52 PM
ross hamilton hill ross hamilton hill is offline
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There is also a huge debate about what IQ tests measure, how for example can you test for emotional intelligence, how do you test the intelligence of someone who has no written language but may have a highly complex aural one, also a lot of work has been done on different types of intelligence, musical, mathematical etc. Also the real issue is, is our western society with its emphasis on 'progress' totally misguided. I'm in London at the moment and seeing a city which architecturally spans many centuries it does seem that progreess creates a kind of chaos, as if we can never catch up with ourselves, this is opposed to the stasis of tribal life where there's no concept of progress but skills are maintained and may increase within a circumscribed sphere. I can't help thinking that the West has got it terribly wrong at some fundamental level and sooner or later there will be a reckoning. But of course the 'end is nigh' is hardly an original concept.

Last edited by ross hamilton hill; 03-27-2015 at 11:48 AM.
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  #92  
Unread 03-26-2015, 06:10 PM
Janice D. Soderling's Avatar
Janice D. Soderling Janice D. Soderling is offline
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IQ tests purport to measure intelligence. IQ stands for Intelligence Quotient.

There are other standard tests to measure those other items, as you yourself point out.

Punctuation will help you avoid those run-on sentences.
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  #93  
Unread 03-26-2015, 06:58 PM
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John Whitworth John Whitworth is offline
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Nobody since Eysenck the Skinnerian supposes that IQ tests measure Intelligence. They have about as much credibility as any other multiple choice quiz. My IQ score is very high (How do I know this? My friend slept with the school secretary, the wicked dog.) but my brother's is higher and he's an idiot.
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  #94  
Unread 03-27-2015, 11:21 AM
Julie Steiner Julie Steiner is offline
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Oh, ick. Thanks, Quincy. Even a broken clock is is right twice a day, but as you pointed out, Charles Murray's well-documented past of pseudo-scientific racism certainly makes any claims he makes based on data interpretation distinctly dubious.

Do I get any credit for pointing out the dangers of his essay's conclusions in my original post? Probably not....
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  #95  
Unread 03-27-2015, 11:29 AM
Janice D. Soderling's Avatar
Janice D. Soderling Janice D. Soderling is offline
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Yes, Julie, you do. I laughed out loud about the part about trophy brides.
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  #96  
Unread 03-27-2015, 11:53 AM
ross hamilton hill ross hamilton hill is offline
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'IQ tests purport to measure intelligence. IQ stands for Intelligence Quotient.'

Janice we all know what IQ stands for. We are, on the whole, like you, hopelessly well-educated and bursting with knowledge, but at times I get the feeling you see us as your class, perhaps 8 year olds and that we all need you to teach us.

Last edited by ross hamilton hill; 03-27-2015 at 12:11 PM.
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  #97  
Unread 03-27-2015, 12:19 PM
Janice D. Soderling's Avatar
Janice D. Soderling Janice D. Soderling is offline
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Since you have changed both your original posts, Ross, both the IQ one and the one bove that mentions Jayne, neither of my comments make sense now.

Jayne wasn't insulting me when she called me a word nerd. We are legion. If you look back into the archives you will find many old threads that may be helpful.

For instance.

http://www.ablemuse.com/erato/showth...ight=word+nerd

Last edited by Janice D. Soderling; 03-27-2015 at 12:44 PM. Reason: Because my original post no longer has bearing on the revised posts they addressed
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  #98  
Unread 03-27-2015, 02:50 PM
Duncan Gillies MacLaurin's Avatar
Duncan Gillies MacLaurin Duncan Gillies MacLaurin is offline
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Public schools in the UK - or independent schools, as they are also called - do give their students improved odds for attaining a high degree of academic excellence, sporting prowess etc. etc. This is due to several things: better facilities, better teachers - yes, they are better-paid, and this means, generally speaking, the quality is higher - smaller classes, etc. The results speak for themselves.

Despite this, I have deep reservations about the value of public schools in the UK, and not least ones where you board (i.e. stay away from home). I attended such a school myself, and while I will readily concede that I derived great benefit from the high standards in all sorts of activities, I found the social environment a total disaster. No warmth and very little kindness. They call it character-building, but I call it torture.

Of course, schools reflect the society they are a part of, and when I condemn public schools in the UK, I condemn British society just as much as, if not more than, the schools themselves.

I have moved to a country that aspires to egalitarianism as well as excellence, and thank god for that.

Duncan

Last edited by Duncan Gillies MacLaurin; 03-27-2015 at 03:00 PM. Reason: spelling
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  #99  
Unread 03-27-2015, 05:03 PM
ross hamilton hill ross hamilton hill is offline
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Duncan I went to similar school in Sydney, based on the English model, it was very militaristic, and emphasised academic and sporting achievement to the detriment of artistic endeavour or anything in that area, drama or music. But it has changed, my old school is now much more liberal, more open to the performing arts and the caning of children is illegal, in fact all forms of physical punishment have been abolished. I do think a harsh but fair disciplinary regime such as I experienced does toughen you up, basically it teaches you to keep on working when you feel like packing it in and I have seen guys who came from softer more easy-going schools buckle under when adult life got tough. I think that is why those schools were so harsh, to compensate for what was a spoilt and privileged home life. I never went to boarding school but I imagine that was even worse. My own children went to state schools but in a very creative area where there were good teachers, but I do notice my son lacks a certain self-discipline in his character that I think I got from my school, perhaps that's just parental worrying. It is very hard to get the balance right.

Last edited by ross hamilton hill; 03-27-2015 at 05:33 PM.
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  #100  
Unread 03-27-2015, 05:59 PM
John Whitworth's Avatar
John Whitworth John Whitworth is offline
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Ross, we don't have militaristic schjools so far as I am aware. That is an American thing or, it appears, an Australian thing. I should have HATED a boarding school and I wouldn't have sent my children to a Public School f any sort even if I could have afforded it.

However, that is not relevant. Some people liked their schools. Some people hated them. I hated mine when I was fourteen, fifteen, sixteen. In my last year I had a terrific time, no exams just acting and cricket and being important. You can't do that sort of thing any more. Schools are more serious, alas.

Betjeman hated his public school. Auden quite liked his. It's all according.
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