[Ned Balbo]

In spirit with David's remark, I cull from Quincy: "I would put most of the blame on an underfunded and overly regimented primary and secondary education system that actively discourages initiative among the students." Yes, the problems are well established by the time I work with students. Some make amazing progress (and some are excellent to begin with), but since clear thinking goes hand in hand with command of language, some end up struggling due to poor pre-college prep: the bar, for them, has always been too low.

Most disconcerting is when smart kids have been misled into believing they possess skills that they don't, and college-level faculty must both break the bad news and facilitate improvement. It's a challenge.

[William A. Baurle]

I wish I could join in the conversation, but the only time I was ever in a place of higher learning was with a late night cleaning crew. It took me an extra year to get out of high school.

[Janice D. Soderling]

This problem not confined to America and has nothing to do with students being exposed to democratic ideals or a broadening of thought or a lessening of prejudice.

Firstly, back in the good-old-days the only people expressing themselves in writing were those who had gone to Yale etcetera and though they may have used the grammar and spelling standards of their day and class, they didn't always have things to say that were worth listening to. And they didn't listen to any voices except their own and their brothers.

Secondly, it was a different world as regards daily influences. Communication was based on the written word and now it is based on the spoken word. Compare the hours people of all ages, but especially the young, spend reading books contra sound-based entertainment.

Thirdly, and for me most important, as several have noted here, public education on all levels is underfunded, from preschool to graduate work. Education is considered to be something one buys, a commodity, not a right.

Europe is now going in the same direction. American universities are setting up affiliated schools to challenge our free educational systems which, at least in Sweden teaches students to think for themselves, to analyze, to question. Some will desert the state schools to be glitzy, just as many of my friends now send their children to private grade and high schools rather than the state schools which as a reult are now seriously underfunded and artificially turned into segregated schools. (The education money is earmarked for the student and goes with the student to the school of their choice.) I'd like to expound on that, but it is off-topic and would muddle the question under discussion.

Part of the solution is to begin to regard all education as a right for every citizen, not as a privilege for the monied, as a benefit to the nation not as a source of income for the private sector, and to this end, pay primary teachers and professors both respect and good salaries.

Another part is to ban segregation (class, religion, ethnic) at all levels because that is sowing the seeds for future social discontent. If you have never had a friend who has some other religion or color or gender how can you, as an adult, cooperate in solving societal conflicts.

Education is slowly, or not so slowly, becoming the domain of big business, and that is not a The-end-is-nigh rant, the evidence is all around us for those who open their eyes to see it. I am not talking only about education-providers who seek profit from their enterprise, but also the influence they exert over textbooks and thought.

A good consumer is a mindless consumer.

[Vernon Sims]

The problem is not who should drink the Hemlock, but what is the right question to ask.

[Mary McLean]

Originally Posted by John Whitworth

I connect this with the rise of free verse.

But also I'd second the serious point made by John, Janice, Quincy et al. who argue that basic competence with writing sentences should come earlier. What do they teach in school if not how to read and write? And if you haven't bothered to learn those things, then why go to college at all?

[E. Shaun Russell]

As an adult student who is currently at the "ground level" of post-secondary education (I'm taking my basic degree courses at a community college before transferring to a University), I'm rather stunned at how few of my classmates in English have ANY writing ability whatsoever. After a few of the major papers, the professor posted an example of an error from every paper (well, every paper except my own, I must admit)...and it was pretty appalling. Sentences that managed to avoid both subjects and verbs...incredible misuse of punctuation...you name it.

It leads me to conclude that the problem is more in the preparation for college (i.e.: high school, elementary). It's pretty tragic though. I honestly take no pride in being the only "A" student in a basic post-sec English course.

[Rose Kelleher]

overly regimented primary and secondary education system that actively discourages initiative among the students

How can that explain a decline in reading and writing skills when schools of the past were if anything more regimented?

I've been reading a children's book by Rosemary Sutcliffe written in the 1920s, and it's just my speed. I can't imagine most 12-year-olds reading it today. I'm also reading a nonfiction book about medieval Ireland written in 1906, and I'm continually struck by how elegant the prose is. This author didn't call himself a writer, he was a scholar and his ability to write well was secondary, a given. Then you see stuff that's written by people who teach writing in universities, people who supposedly represent the pinnacle of today's literary whatever, and...eh.

[Catherine Chandler]

Rose, Would that be Dawn Wind? I loved that book!

[John Riley]

The fundamental problem is there isn't enough value put on writing in public education. Thousands of teachers are fighting the good fight, and plenty of lip service is paid to the need to improve writing scores, but the real emphasis in American education is on math and science and preparing people "for the jobs of tomorrow." There is also the constant pressure to get students ready for the next state-wide test that does little to measure educational achievement. In my son's high school only the elite students in the IB program are required to write a weekly essay and regularly take essay tests. Even in AP English classes they have only two to three short papers a term. When I taught history I had parents complain that the papers I assigned wasted time the kid needed to study the stuff that really mattered. I'm not saying there aren't great teachers devoted to teaching writing and literature but when it comes to what is most valued and funded science and math win out.

[Quincy Lehr]

Rose--

It's a matter of the nature of the material covered, particularly the degree to which performance of schools is judged by standardized tests that favor rote memorization. Coupled with this, when I observe middle and high school classes, I am struck by two things:

1. How regimented the curriculum is--a friend of mine at Teacher's College at Columbia calls it the "panopticon," taking Foucault's metaphor derived from prison architecture.

2. How teachers are making the best of it. Frankly, those of us at the tertiary level still have a great deal of leeway in how and what we teach. I have to submit syllabi to the dean's office, but I've never been asked to change anything. One can generally ride out the fads that aren't congruent with one's own strengths as an instructor. (I don't really see the point of online discussions in a class that can meet face-to-face.) I don't get that sense with middle and high school instructors. They manage as best they can, anyway, including with crappy salaries, overcrowded classrooms, and understaffing.

And the attitude toward university has shifted, too. Business and criminal justice are among our biggest majors. Thirty years ago, it would have been English and history. Many students see their gen ed requirements not as part of becoming well-rounded, but as a drag on their GPA. To be sure, they're encouraged in this--and it's really a bit rich to get too high and mighty about the "life of the mind" when the majority of the professoriate is made up as adjuncts, and full-timers in New York outside the Ivies and NYU have 4/4 class loads--when not doing overloads to afford living in this city. And there are fewer college students than there were thirty years ago, and I'd love to say that most of them make the decision on academics, but....