[Quincy Lehr]

Which poem is worse:

THIS SANCTIMONIOUS PROSODIC TRAIN WRECK by Joyce Carol Oates

OR...

THIS DODDERING DOGGEREL from Frederick Seidel?

[Aaron Novick]

Well, if we assume Seidel's poem was a joke, we should at least admit that "Frederick Seidel’s most recent collection is Widening Income Inequality" was a pretty satisfying punchline.

I don't know how to assess which is worse.

[Aaron Novick]

Actually, yes I do. As a good utilitarian, I noticed that I accrued roughly similar numbers of displeasure units per line in each poem. As Seidel's was longer, it brought about in me a larger net displeasure, and so is more evil.

[Orwn Acra]

Oates has never written anything meriting a mention. A style- and clueless writer who never met a metaphor she didn't use without thinking. I'll repost my post from Facebook:

JOYCE CAROL OATES, A TRUE STORY

She sat on a park bench. A leaf hit her on the forehead. “At least a leaf and not Charles,” she admitted. Charles lay in a pool of blood. “I hate Charles and myself” she told a nodding dandelion, who was nodding because of the wind and not because it agreed with her. The wind also blew her words back into her ears so that she had to listen to them, a small revenge for all of us. A newspaper now found itself wedged between the slats in the park bench. “Let me tell you my story,” she said to the helpless creature flailing its pages in vain. “I lived with Charles from this date to this other date, which is today, when I killed him.” For the next six hours, until she was removed by Princeton security, she related the story of Charles in a manner so free of thought it was zen. The sad scene of her being tasered and taken away is one that the squirrel will always remember.

[John Whitworth]

We're talking about writers who are supposed to be good but ain't.

Norman Mailer tops my list. The Naked and the Dead is a truly dreadful book.

I thought of adding J.D. Salinger, but actually I like The Catcher in the Rye.

[Roger Slater]

Try The Executioner's Song. Most of it is alive with clothing on.

[Adam Elgar]

I didn't even know Seidel was regarded as A-list. He keeps appearing in the London Review of Books, and I can't imagine why.

[Catherine Chandler]

They're both pretty awful, but the sanctimonious Oates "poem" was worse for a number of reasons, IMO.

[David Callin]

Originally Posted by Roger Slater

Try The Executioner's Song. Most of it is alive with clothing on.

Exactly. I loved The Executioner's Song when I read it, so it seemed pretty A-list to me at the time.

[Douglas G. Brown]

Originally Posted by John Whitworth

I thought of adding J.D. Salinger, but actually I like The Catcher in the Rye.

I'd add Salinger to the dreadful list. His drippy tale of an angst - ridden snotty rich brat inspired a lot of even worse imitations, both in print and on film.
But, I agree that Mailer is pretty awful. Salinger at least became something of a recluse, but Mailer loved to bloviate in front of the TV cameras.


As to the original question, I'd say Seidel is worse, but Oates gives him a run for the money. Seidel writes like he's getting paid by the word, and has an editor with a weak bullshit detector.