[Sharon Fish Mooney]

Ann Drysdale and I have been chatting about poetry for children and Sam said it was fine to start a thread here—we thought it would be good to share ideas about working with kids of various ages and teaching poetry as some of us do and some of us may be asked to in the future. We might post good resources if we know of any.

I've found the most successful and fun things I've done with kids (4th graders on up) is to choose well-known poems to teach various aspects of poetry , e.g. Sandburg’s Fog to discuss metaphor and Mary Oliver’s Swan for metaphor and simile (my favorite)

http://www.famouspoetsandpoems.com/p...er/poems/15806


and then have them choose an aspect of the weather or an animal or bird and write their own poem— similes are usually easier for them – am working on a how-to article based on some of these I might try and send to a journal. If they get stuck I send them to the library to read about their animal of choice and then write down (or tell me) all the different things about the animal that are similar to the weather word of their choice ..and then write a poem.

Ekphrastic poetry writing also works very well for all ages, 4th graders on up – I get a bunch of library books with paintings/pictures (or go to a museum if you can or the library and have them choose their own books) and then have them write – or have them listen to music and write a poem based on it. For teens I might post pictures around the room and have some on a Power Point. It’s often good to have them all write on the same poem and then read them and compare. And of course you also share good ones and discuss.

[Roger Slater]

I've never taught poetry writing to children, but I've often spoken with those who do, and one of the things that strikes me is that children are often cued to write about particular subjects, like paintings or feelings or nature, with very little attention paid to developing their ears or meter-awareness. I think that's a mistake and overemphasizes the self-expression side of poetry and de-emphasizes the rhythmic song-making side of poetry.

I liked what my co-panelist, Toby Speed, had to say on the subject at Poetry by the Sea last week. She said she likes to get children to recite nursery rhymes, then to substitute new words that keep to the rhythm of the original. For this sort of exercise, content is not nearly as important as simply coming up with new words that fit the metrical template of the original nursery rhyme. This approach gets kids to really think about the rhythm of metered poetry, and gives them their first experience of trying to step into that rhythm with their own words.

I would also suggest getting kids to memorize short poems or stanzas or couplets. Even just a few very easy rhymes drilled into a kid's head can help them internalize the idea of meter and be more aware of it as they read and write.

[Ann Drysdale]

I work with youngsters as a poet rather than a teacher. My own most recent - and current - projects are pop-up fun workshops with 8-10 year-old mixed-ability classes They are associated with a local "Arts Festival" and are based on laughter and no-holds-barred input. All I use is a flip-chart and catch the ideas as they fly, making the skeleton of a poem, which I later polish and send back into school. There are no wrong answers and all the kids are stars.

A couple of points to watch with this approach:

The smart-arse. This kid often has a hidden agenda, usually to use rhyme to force the poem into a sexual or scatological direction. This makes a great excuse to explain that we can't use ***** in this poem because, while it's OK to laugh among ourselves, it's going to be shown to huge numbers of people and some might not find it clever or funny, so that ruins the whole thing. In some cases the words may be inappropriate because they are discriminatory. Then you can use the knives and guns analogy - there's nothing bad about them until someone uses them for a bad purpose. Usually no need to go further; the kids value explanation above a pontifical "thou shalt not..."

The less able children; ones with special needs. Classroom culture varies. Sometimes you have to become Dominique Sterne and order a restless class to be quiet while a kid struggles and give the time to making sure you get that contribution. In other classes (I'm looking out of my window to the school across the road) they have all been shown how to respect and help each other.

I have a variety of ways in. I'll give you one to start with. The Precious Things poem. Just show them something you have with you - in my case it's often a beat-up copy of "I Like this Poem" from which I'll read one or two. I explain it's something I've had a long time and it's special and... start a conversation. On the flipchart I scribe the bones of their own treasures, using their own (wonderful) words at all times. We discuss rhymes and rhythms; the ones with those skills make suggestions. All are incorporated.

Taken home, polished and cherished and sent back into the school, we end up with something like...

Precious Things

I had a dress when I was four
A bit too big but Mam was sure
That if she took it in a bit
That would do to make it fit.
I loved that dress till I outgrew
The size I was when it was new
But Mam undid it, made it fit
And now I still love wearing it.

Marly, Molly, Daisy, Honey
Faithful, friendly, sweet and funny
Some of them are with us yet
Some are gone, but we don’t forget.

I went to Cardiff to Cardiff to Cardiff
I went to Cardiff with my Dad
We went to watch the rugby, the rugby, the rugby
And what a brilliant time we had.
He bought me a scarf with the two teams on it
I wore it a lot and I love it still
But now it’s got brown bits, brown bits, brown bits
But I’ll pick ’em off, I will, I will.

I’ve got a cousin whose leg is broken
I can’t remember her name
If I were a wizard I could mend her
But I’m not, so I can’t. What a shame.

Nice old books that I love and save
A teddy that goes in the microwave
My Little Pony, Shaun the Sheep
Blankets to help me go to sleep
A monkey-puppet that fits my hand
A Minnie-Mouse shirt from Disneyland
An old blue teddy, a lacy shawl
Beautiful none, but precious all.


Or, from another class...

Special Things

Up in the attic lives my old teddybear
I can’t see him but I know he’s there

The silver ring my mum gave me
is moving slowly,
finger to finger to finger
keeping pace with my hand as it grows.

I call him a teddy but he’s really a cat
He got old and dirty. I was sad about that
Till my mum washed him and he looked like new –
I had forgotten he was blue.

I had a pair of lucky socks
and they were red.
In the washing machine a strange thing happened –
the red stayed on
but the luck washed off.
Now they are just red socks.
Small red socks.

I have a hairy bunny that I chuck up in the air
And sometimes I don’t catch him, but he doesn’t seem to care.

The Winnie-the-Pooh blanket and the Lucky Cloth of Cats –
They are such things as dreams are wrapped in.

Dress in the attic, shoes in a drawer
Loved and remembered, not worn any more.
A shining emerald, a grandmother’s ring
A real pink diamond and a bird that used to sing.
A Big-Love teddy – and the one with without a face
Whose head came off in a banger-race.
Two little boots with a lacy trim
And Chris the Monkey – don’t forget HIM


Yes, we discussed the Shakespeare quote - I shouted "Hey - guess what!" when we were talking about the comfort blankets and they agreed we should put it in. Chris the Monkey was the contribution from a seriously handicapped boy who apparently seldom spoke in class. It took a bit of one-to-one to get his name right but he ends the poem with style.

It's not "proper teaching" and it's exhausting to do but the kids seem to love it and teachers do like to see "product" from extra-curricular sessions.


PS - cross-posted with Roger and just coming back to say Yes to the point about hearing the music within the poem.

[Stephen Hampton]

Great subject of personal interest. Being greatly involved again with the care, and teaching of grand, and great grandchildren - long ago memories of repetitions, rhythms, and rhymes become more vivid in my mind. But also vividly remembered are the problems I personally had with reading such.

I could hear, memorise, and recite them well enough -- except my th's came out my mouth as F's. But early on, I struggled with embarrassment, despondency and shameful self-loathing because many written words and their spellings made no sense to me - I was the lisping class clown of second grade who read "on t'wo free" for one two three... in a Dick and Jane reader, causing my friends and enemies to laugh uproariously, and my teacher to remark;
"Stevie Hampton, you may act stupid and silly on the playground, but you will not do so in this classroom. Now, begin again, and read it correctly, please."

Have one point to make; anyone working with children, please correct them correctly; challenge them, but do not demean and damage their blooming self-esteem. On second thought, a second thought, and point; when working (or just communicating) with elders whose self-everything may be wilting away. Please do not stop correcting and challenging them, but do so with the same civile empathy that you, yourself, may require in the not too distant future.... even though there may be little of yourself left to even think you need.

Sincerely,
Stephen

[Roger Slater]

Just to state the obvious, if you Google "teaching children poetry" you will get may links to many articles on the subject, some of them quite good.

[ross hamilton hill]

Having spent a year full-time in a speech and drama school learning how to recite poetry, among other things, I always got my students to recite poetry, and in particular to recite as a group, thus echoing for me the reciting in church of psalms and the Lord's Prayer.
I found kids of all ages, while reluctant at first, all joined in and a powerful, ritualistic sound would develop as students discovered the driving rhythms of metrical poetry.
Needless to say you have to pick the right poem for the right age level.

[Gregory Palmerino]

Cinquains are a good form for children http://www.poetry4kids.com/blog/less...cinquain-poem/

[Ann Drysdale]

Indeed, Gregory - and how they love it when you tell them who invented them!

Sometimes you'll find a class who don't know "noun" "adjective" and "syllable" so there's a game that introduces the ideas through colours . Lists. You need lists. A red list of single-syllable adjectives, a green list of single-syllable nouns, a yellow list of two-syllable nouns and a blue list, also of single-syllable nouns, (but with a sub-agenda - the blue ones are easy to rhyme!).

A shout-out session will produce a goodly selection, and then we "write a song" with them. A good simple tune - (My Bonnie Lies Over the Ocean is good).

"You're as red as a green in a yellow
You're as red as a green in a blue
You're as red as a green in a yellow
and the last line is - over to you

It's chaotic and hilarious, producing nonsense like

You're as pink as a cat in a handbag
you're as fat as a cup in a tree
you're as big as a comb in a bucket
... er... but that's not a problem for me.

By this time you've got the measure of the group and can go many ways. Making more and more nonsense. Editing, going off-piste with the principle of the thing, letting them loose; changing cat to pig, for example, so as to make two "p"s - (does that sound better?)

Staying with the cat because we like cats. Who has one? what does it do, why does it, does anyone else's cat do that? Who are you writing your song for, what do you want to tell them. and suddenly we get things like "safe as a cat in a cupboard".

If they get the metre and the one-and-only rhyme, they can go further off-piste and expand the idea at the expense of the formula - "I'm as fierce as a galloping rhino..."

They can go first-person, they can do persona. They have the framework.

And at the very least they'll produce a jingle they can sing in the playground.

[R. S. Gwynn]

I did this only once, years back, with kids who were 8-10; it ran four days. I didn't worry about rhyme and meter, just exercises that made them use language. Two of the best were:

Taking unusual, long words and having them write monster poems (with an illustration). One I remember was "ventricular," which ended up as a slime monster that live in a/c vents and would trickle down on unsuspecting victims. I can't imagine what would have resulted from "onomatopoeia."

The other was playing Holst's The Planets and have them write dramatic poems with a planet as speaker. Also with an illustration.

Some other ideas came from Koch's book. I was terrified when so many kids showed up (20+), so I had to enlist one of our majors (who was also a mother) to help out. Occasionally a kid would get frustrated and start crying, so we had to help them along.

It was successful. On the last day we went over and used the department's ditto machine (remember those) to construct a little anthology of their work. Each kid got a sheet of ditto paper to reproduce one poem, and we collated and stapled them together. I think they enjoyed this the best. Somewhere I still have one of the gifts I got--a blank journal book given me by the Fish sisters--the "Little Fish" as I called them.

[Sharon Fish Mooney]

I agree Roger – the last time all the stepgrands were over I read poetry to them – metrical – and would stop before the end of the lines and they would supply the words—often the right one but even if not, usually one that did rhyme – I was quite impressed as they could do that at age 3. Plus we clap a lot to get the rhythm.

A voice choir also works well in schools or small groups of home-schooled kids —having the kids memorize poems and recite them together