[Michael Juster]

I am looking for help on the best translation of a word used from the fifteenth to the nineteenth centuries in Welsh religious poetry: "Goreudduw."

The word "duw" translates as "God" and I am quite sure it is a compound noun (which is common in Welsh). The only translation I have found is "Christ immaculate," which I am fairly sure is off base.

I have a very speculative guess, but I am going to hold that back for now. If anyone can help me, I would be very grateful.

Thanks!

[Don Jones]

Alex Foreman will know. Perhaps he'll stop by. Or PM him via Eratosphere. I remember him claiming that Welsh is his favorite tongue out of the gazillion he knows.

Good luck.

[ross hamilton hill]

goreudduw
[gorau1+duw]
eg.
Duw gorau, Duw goruchaf:
best or highest god, the supreme God. 

from the online welsh dictionary GPC, you probably want more than that, using 'online' as part of your search term may be helpful.
Ann Drysdale is from Wales, she might be able to help, she will probably see this post soon enough.

[Catherine McDonald]

Here's another source that says "Goreu" means "best": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goreu_...generated1_1-1

Granted, it's a Wikipedia entry, but it does cite Rachel Bromwich as the source using this work: http://www.amazon.com/Trioedd-Ynys-P.../dp/0708313868

[Ann Drysdale]

From the source of all wisdom in Welshness. (Ross found this but I'm giving the link in case the notes are useful)

http://geiriadur.ac.uk/gpc/gpc.html?goreudduw

And an example of an apparent "mistranslation" - read Richard Poole's review.

http://www.gwales.com/goto/biblio/en/9781870206549/


(Meanwhile, I am investigating its possibilities as an expletive...)

.

[Michael Cantor]

Originally Posted by Ann Drysdale

(Meanwhile, I am investigating its possibilities as an expletive...)

Knowing Mike, I assumed that's where we were headed.

[Michael Juster]

Yes, for most Gwerful Mechain poems, Gramich is the only translator and her work is dreadful both as poetry and as a guide to meaning--I can't rely on her at all. It is a reason for tackling the poems.

[Catherine McDonald]

Don't know if this helps, but I found an older English to Welch dictionary online. Though I could not find the full word, I found each component of the suspected compound noun.

"Goreu" translates to "best" as you can see here.

And Duw, of course, to "God" as you can see here. (Click the blue page numbers to get the full entry.)

Not sure if this is related to the expletive discussion, but as you can see with one of the examples listed for "Duw," when the "dd" or "Dd" is used, it is for the expression Good God! or Och Dduw!

Of even more interest is the use of the lower case "dd" which seems to be employed in relation to the terms to deify and to idolize - or reserved more "gods" than "God" (which uses the upper case - so it probably would have been "Goreu Duw" if employed in a sacred sense?).

This may be wide of the mark, but are we in Dorian Gray territory with this term?

[Ann Drysdale]

I'd probably render it either "Almighty God" or "God Almighty", depending on the structure and context of what I was hoping to achieve.

[Ann Drysdale]

Ah, Catherine, the double "d" is a snare and a delusion; the D is mutating to DD. This is an example of a "soft mutation" where:

P changes to B
T changes to D
C changes to G
B changes to F
M changes to F
D changes to DD
and G disappears altogether.

I will not trouble you with the details, just trust me. If you try too hard you will go the way of the Welsh learner who stabbed himself to death with a cry of "muck this for a fark"

.