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Unread 04-08-2012, 08:09 AM
John Whitworth's Avatar
John Whitworth John Whitworth is offline
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Default Is there such a thing as Light Verse?

Here's what A A Milne said, or a part of what he said.

Light verse observes the most exact laws of rhythm and meter as if by happy accident, and in the sort of nonchalant spirit of mockery at the real poets who do it on purpose. But to describe it solely leaves something unsaid: one must also say what it is not. Light verse then is not a relaxation of a major poet in the intervals of writing an epic; it is not the kindly contribution of a minor poet to a little girl’s album. It is a precise art which is only been taken seriously and thus qualified as an art in the 19th and 20th century. They needs neither genealogical backing nor distinguished patronage to make it respectable.

There's a lot there that is true. In other words that I agree with. I said on another thread that one could argue that there is no such thing as Light Verse anyway.

What do Spherians think?
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Unread 04-08-2012, 08:47 AM
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Jayne Osborn Jayne Osborn is offline
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Good topic, John.

As a writer of (mainly) light verse myself, I agree with you and old A.A.

Problems arise when 'Light', in some people's minds anyway, equates to 'trivial' or 'meaningless'. (I'm guessing that's why Wendy Cope objects to being called a writer of light verse.)

Lots of people have intimated to me that it must be dead easy to knock out a humorous poem in seconds. They're mistaken; it needs as much care and precision as any serious poem.

Here I must mention two of my pet hates: When people say, of a funny poem (even some writers, not just readers), that
'Of course it's only verse, not real poetry'. Whoever said that 'proper' poetry can't be amusing?
And the other thing that gets my goat is when light/funny/humorous poems, call 'em what you will, are automatically referred to as 'doggerel'. Some are, but the terms are not synonymous.

I could go on... but I won't

Jayne
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Unread 04-08-2012, 09:05 AM
Susan McLean Susan McLean is offline
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Humor is only denigrated by those who lack it. Anyone who tries writing it quickly learns that there are fewer things harder than managing to be funny. I think to a lot of people "light verse" denotes verse that is not serious, but most good light verse I know manages to make many serious points and make them more effectively than serious poetry often does. My favorite light verse is often very dark indeed, addressing losses with a bravado that can be heartbreaking or satirizing injustice intelligently and fearlessly. Even when light verse does nothing but make me laugh, it is doing something that I welcome and long for. I will admit that humor can be a kind of self-protective armor that some writers use to deflect self-questioning. But in the hands of the best writers it is a scalpel.

Susan
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Unread 04-08-2012, 10:11 AM
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Ed Shacklee Ed Shacklee is offline
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In the United States, liberals by and large gave up on that name and started calling themselves progressives, because the term 'liberal' had so much sneering baggage loaded onto it over the years. Maybe people who write what is often called light verse feel the same way. But I, who wish my first instinct was to write light verse, think it's a great tag, and a proud tradition.

Ed


P.S. What Susan said.
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Unread 04-08-2012, 10:11 AM
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Ann Drysdale Ann Drysdale is offline
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I agree, happily, with all that has been said heretofore. But then, I would, wouldn't I?

Last edited by Ann Drysdale; 04-08-2012 at 02:34 PM.
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Unread 04-08-2012, 10:20 AM
Mary McLean Mary McLean is offline
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Well, I've already sounded off about this but I'll expand a bit. I think the main feature of light verse is not humour but comprehensibility to a general audience. I've cribbed this view from Stephen Fry, who says:

Light verse does not need to be comic in intent or witty in nature: it encourages readers to believe that they and the poet share the same discourse, intelligence and standing, inhabit the same universe of feeling and cultural reference, it does not howl in misunderstood loneliness, wallow in romantic agony or bombard the reader with learning and allusion from a Parnassian or abstrusely academic height.

I think we should be proud to be light poets. Especially Wendy Cope, who has my vote for High Priestess of the Order. I would write more but I'm busy designing our robes and sacrificial rites.
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Unread 04-08-2012, 11:18 AM
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John Whitworth John Whitworth is offline
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Ah Mary, I think all poetry should be comprehensible. I always am. Except when I'm not, if you see what I mean. If you're going to be incomprehensible you should know that that's what you're aiming at. Like this by Edwin Morgan:

The Loch Ness Monster's Song

Sssnnnwhuffffll?
Hnwhuffl hhnnwfl hnfl hfl?
Gdroblboblhobngbl gbl gl g g g g glbgl.
Drublhaflablhaflubhafgabhaflhafl fl fl -
gm grawwwww grf grawf awfgm graw gm.
Hovoplodok - doplodovok - plovodokot - doplodokosh?
Splgraw fok fok splgrafhatchgabrlgabrl fok splfok!
Zgra kra gka fok!
Grof grawff gahf?
Gombl mbl bl -
blm plm,
blm plm,
blm plm,
blp
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Unread 04-08-2012, 12:27 PM
Mary McLean Mary McLean is offline
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John, I think that excellent example is just as comprehensible to the average teenager as it is to a university lecturer in literature. And I agree with you that all good poetry should be comprehensible to the public, but it seems to me that many of the mainstream poetry journals don't share our view.
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Unread 04-08-2012, 01:57 PM
S. A. Wyatt S. A. Wyatt is offline
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I'm a little hesitant to add my two cents here, since I'm new to the forums, but this thread touches on the type of poetical technique I have been thinking about a lot lately.

Depending on how you define it, there is no such thing as light verse - only good and bad verse. The problem with a label such as "light verse" is that people tend to assume that it means poetry lacking in intellectual weight or the proper poetic seriousness.

In practice, good light verse can present itself as a lively and intensely feeling intellect (Pope, Swift, Byron, etc.), and I would agree that there can be a mocking element to it, much like the mocking tone in many of Mozart's pieces. Sometimes poets take themselves too seriously, and they need "light verse" to bring them back down to reality, or up from the depths, depending on where they have been spending their time (yes, I'm looking at you Dante!). I’d rather think of light verse as “lively verse” myself.

One of the problems with formal poetry today is that it is in danger of being taken as light verse by everyone. It all tends to appeal to the intellect more than the passionate soul; to the conscious more than the unconscious mind. The challenge is writing formal poetry that appeals to both aspects of our minds.

By the way, this is not meant as any sort of slight on Modernism or free verse. I think poets are able to achieve different poetic affects by using different forms, and probably all poets should try their hand at crafting poems using different techniques. The truth is, though, that with the rise of the novel (and free verse, then Modernism), there has been a tendency toward seeing any rhyming, metrical poetry as a variation on a nursery rhyme.
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Unread 04-08-2012, 02:45 PM
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Jayne Osborn Jayne Osborn is offline
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Sean makes a good argument for merely separating poetry into 'good' or 'bad'.
In any case, 'light' is incredibly hard to define.

Good or Bad works for me! That's easy to define.

Jayne
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