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  #31  
Unread 03-23-2012, 02:15 PM
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Jennifer Reeser Jennifer Reeser is offline
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"Twinkle, twinkle, little star"

King George, laughing his royal ass off.

Pardon my Louisiana French.
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  #32  
Unread 03-24-2012, 05:10 AM
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Jennifer Reeser Jennifer Reeser is offline
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Forget what I wrote about not getting after these people. I have written the agency, inquiring as to what person or persons exactly are responsible, at the Poetry Foundation.

Hell hath no fury like a mocked, taxpaying mother.
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  #33  
Unread 03-24-2012, 06:18 AM
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John Whitworth John Whitworth is offline
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What has 'the left' got to do with poetry, Quincy? In general they don't care for it. Not YOU of course, Quincy, as Sir John Gielgud would have said.
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  #34  
Unread 03-24-2012, 09:20 AM
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Ed Shacklee Ed Shacklee is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Whitworth View Post
What has 'the left' got to do with poetry, Quincy? In general they don't care for it. Not YOU of course, Quincy, as Sir John Gielgud would have said.
Hmm, I'm pretty much of a southpaw myself, John, so I hope you aren't lumping me in with the them who make up the 'they' who've given you that impression.

My guess is, less than one in ten people care much if at all about poetry, in these parts at least, and lefties of my acquaintance are probably as guilty of that as any other group; but I don't think they stand out in that respect.

Although, come to think of it, lefties here might be righties there, for all I know.

Best,

Ed
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  #35  
Unread 03-24-2012, 09:41 AM
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Quincy Lehr Quincy Lehr is offline
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John--

I mean that the (mostly liberal) left-leaning chattering classes in this country have increasingly ceded discussion of literature and the arts (which, being public, does fall under the purview of discussion) to the right (or, quite possibly the peer-reviewed academic specialist journals). One finds more in The New Criterion (which sees itself mostly as a cultural journal) or (gulp!) The Weekly Standard than in, say, The Nation or In These Times. (N + 1 is rectifying this to an extent, but it is still relatively recent. The Baffler is also quite good and ran a rather damning critique of the Bush-era NEA and Poetry Foundation a few years ago. But these are, alas, still the exceptions.)

As for "the left" not caring about poetry, I'll resist the urge to utter something unprintable and make the more general point that the arts are the purview of public discussion from any and all political and philosophical perspectives.
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  #36  
Unread 03-24-2012, 09:58 AM
Michael Cantor Michael Cantor is offline
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The right isn't domimnant in literature. It's just noisier and more arrogant.
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  #37  
Unread 03-24-2012, 11:41 AM
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John Whitworth John Whitworth is offline
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Oh come, Michael, nobody is noisier or more arrogant than a leftie intellectual. We have a man called Dawkins over here, never shuts up. I am a weeny bit to the right and not much of an intellectual though I do read the odd book if it's not too long. And as everyone knows I'm an absolute pussy cat.
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  #38  
Unread 03-24-2012, 01:08 PM
Michael Cantor Michael Cantor is offline
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Originally Posted by John Whitworth View Post
What has 'the left' got to do with poetry, Quincy? In general they don't care for it.
Oh good, John. I thought - apparently mistakenly - that that sounded a bit arrogant, a tad Blimpish, the kind of thing one hears harrumphed at one's club. Glad you cleared it up. That Dawkins chap definitely must be scolded. Give your photo of Maggie a kiss for me.

(I will admit that my characterization of the right was based on American politics - come listen to Mitt, Rick and Newt for a few months - or sit through the debates with all eight or so original candidates - and you'll understand my reaction.)

Last edited by Michael Cantor; 03-24-2012 at 01:19 PM.
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  #39  
Unread 03-24-2012, 01:10 PM
Christopher ONeill Christopher ONeill is offline
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Originally Posted by Quincy Lehr View Post
And to raise the unspoken question... which of us are "us"?

Never wanted to be an us -
Still pretty happy being me;
Plumb born inhomogeneous
Never wanted to be an us.
I mean: crowds are anonymous,
So, I guess, is a cemetery.
Never wanted to be an us -
Still pretty happy being me.
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  #40  
Unread 03-24-2012, 02:26 PM
Christopher ONeill Christopher ONeill is offline
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(And where the hell's the left on this?
I don't see how having a national competition (whether right-inspired or left-inspired) precludes 'the left' (or whoever) organising their own local competitions, jamborees, festivals; should they have the motivation to do so.

A ponderpoint which may be relevant here.

Since 1922 Wales has had the Urdd Gobaith Cymru (League of Welsh Youth). The Urdd organises events, including cultural events, for Welsh-speaking young people with a declared focus on the values of Christianity, Co-operation (the Urdd is historically syndicalist), and preserving the Welsh language. Since the 1930's (at least) Urdd activities have included national events (national to Wales, obviously) for solo and group performance of poetry (always in Welsh).

There is no shortage in Wales of opportunities for young English-speakers (around 85% of the population) to perform poems. Many schools have cultural festivals (eisteddfodau) following the Urdd model (but bilingual, and often dominated by English), and often these lead on to a regional eisteddfod.

But there is nothing in English to match the central organisation, or the prestige, of the Urdd eisteddfod.

There are also sporadic national (national to all of the UK) competitions for younger reciters of poetry, usually put together by the Poetry Society (our last poet laureate - Andrew Motion - was very enthusiastic about these).

But if you turn up at a regional Welsh heat for a UK national poetry reading competition (whether as a judge, or just a kittzer) you will regularly find that around half the performers who have made it this far are first-language Welsh speakers. In most cases around half the shortlist you pass on to the next stage will also be first language Welsh speakers.

The Welsh first-language children are reading poems in a language they don't speak at home and probably poems they don't much like or understand (contemporary Welsh language poetry is closer to The Yellow Book than to Ramazani / Ellmann / O'Clair). But because they have grown up in a tradition where reciting poetry to an audience is normal, and valued, they outperform their English-only peers by a factor of 2 or 3.

I think we need to normalise the notion of reading poetry (aloud, or at all) in any and every way available to us. I noticed that when I lived in Prague, if I carried a volume of a Peterloo Poet into a café, and began to read it - there was a good chance that a total stranger would sit down next to me and strike up a conversation about modern poetry. In London visibly carrying a Peterloo Poet volume has the same effect as clanking a bell and wailing 'Unclean'.

I can't think that anything which raises the profile of poetry is ever a bad thing. If folk don't like poems, they won't take to them. (I don't notice queues outside Early Music recitals, though that has done an excellent job of making itself visible in the UK over the last fifty years).

Who wants less poetry? It's a rare case where more is just inevitably going to mean better.
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