[Richard Meyer]

Originally Posted by John Riley

As to the idea of liberal hypocrisy, that isn't the issue … Hypocrisy has nothing to do with the issue at hand.

Politics is built on hypocrisy. It's the one thing many Democrats and Republicans have in common. Hypocrisy is the grease that keeps political systems running.

I would like very much to see Trump impeached, found guilty, and removed from office; however, I'll not wear simplistic partisan blinders when viewing the current situation.

Richard

[John Riley]

Yes, this is beyond partisanship. Which side is being hypocritical is beside the point. Did Putin chose the president of the United States is the question.

[Richard Meyer]

Originally Posted by John Riley

Did Putin chose the president of the United States is the question.

Oh please, John. Did the Russians hack DNC computers? Yes. And a thorough investigation turning over every cyber rock should be conducted. Was there collusion between Trump or his minions and the Russians? Possibly. Again, a thorough investigation is necessary. But the notion that Russian meddling somehow stuffed ballot boxes or changed the vote is a tired excuse for HC's loss.

Richard

Added Note: HC, by her own comments and through various reporting sources, places the major blame for her loss on Comey.

[John Isbell]

I don't care why Hillary feels she lost. I care what measures Trump may have taken to win. Some may be illegal; some may be treason.

[Andrew Mandelbaum]

The issue here isn't whether Clinton's people would have wanted Comey fired but what is Trump hoping to avoid by doing so. Come on yourself, Richard. If you can't see involvement from Putin, even if it was just one factor, as a problem then what would it take to be concerned. Not because "Russians" were involved, but because at every level, from local to international, the public sphere is being informed and directed by fat-sucking thugs out for their own empires.

There are all sorts of reasons why Hillary Clinton was not trusted by many on the so-called left and more reasons why she didn't win in the predicted landslide. She has a terrible sense of judgment when it comes to appearing in the public sphere and a disappointing approach to the issues.
But that doesn't change the fact that if you believe in the present form of US democracy (which I don't) and you think she lost the election because of her own failings, you are a dupe.

Why she lost the election is elementary. The collapse of voters right and the orchestration of voter suppression in key counties gave Trump the victory that he never could have managed without the techniques employed by local technicians. It is a class war leveraged by race and other self-inflicted stupidities like millionaires in the sky and the Republican/Democrat delusion of representation. Look at Wisconsin alone and its obvious. You can defend your hesitation to be about rolling guillotines into the square by claiming tactical concerns or the legitimacy of means but not in any tenable sense of just deserts at this point.

The relative ease with which most people accept the completely unhidden manipulation as "politics" and scoff at the idea of a grand scheme to control the population through misdirected anxiety and generalized stupidity is the truly amazing part. I guess Oreos and Netflix are just to good to risk on anything utopian like common decency or a fair share of resources among individuals and species.

Not that the original post's subject isn't important. It is. As a lever to pry an unstable moron away from the nuclear codes and the tax laws. Because there is a distinction between levels of jack-assery. Not collapsing that with the above. Just sayin.

[John Isbell]

Yes, but look at this shiny object.
It is very shiny.

[Andrew Mandelbaum]

Yeah. I like it too. Silver....What were we talking about? Oh..look...a burger with bacon as a the bun itself...amazing...

[John Riley]

Stuffing ballot boxes? No, that isn't how elections are stolen in the digital era. I'm not making excuses for Hillary losing. She ran a terrible campaign and underestimated how pervasive sexism remains here. She also had the misfortune to follow a black man as president and eight years of the sick ravings of millions of racists egged on by the Republican Party and its corporate apparatus drove the election as well. I don't need an excuse. Putin could have swung the election without touching a single voting machine. This isn't a subtle question in need of a layering of analysis. At this point in time there are three major world powers and everyday it seems more likely that one of them played a role in distorting the election in another. Trump's actions yesterday are not the actions of an innocent man. Only a man as ignorant of U.S. history as Trump is would have tried to pull it off. I'm not interested in letting him get away with it by diverting attention to Hillary or the supposed jealousy of her voters.

[Richard Meyer]

Originally Posted by John Riley

Trump's actions yesterday are not the actions of an innocent man. Only a man as ignorant of U.S. history as Trump is would have tried to pull it off. I'm not interested in letting him get away with it by diverting attention to Hillary or the supposed jealousy of her voters.

I agree with you, John. As I said in my first post on this thread, Trump's presidency is a tragedy for this country, and my hope is that he'll be impeached.

I merely made a tangential comment about political hypocrisy. I know that Trump presents a clear and present danger to the country, but that doesn't mean I'm going to cancel my long held belief that the political system and the politicians who operate it, no matter which party they represent, deal in pretense and posturing.

Richard

[Roger Slater]

I don't think it's hypocrisy to think that Comey did the wrong thing back during the campaign but was in the process of doing the right thing with regard to the Russia investigation. The choice isn't whether to love or hate him unreservedly, and there's no reason one can't have mixed feelings about him without it being taken as hypocrisy.

For Trump to claim that he fired Comey because he was unfair to Hillary Clinton nine months ago is utterly ridiculous and I daresay that no one believes it for a second. Meanwhile, the NY Times just reported that just a few days ago, Comey asked the Justice Department for more resources to devote to the Russia investigation. Does any sane person think that has nothing to do with the sudden firing?