[R. S. Gwynn]

Here's a new poem by a fairly well known American poet. It has no title. I ask for comments:

The brilliance of lost days surrounds the night,
shining in abstraction, for what is real
and most particular has taken flight--
a putting away of all the things we feel.
The sheets of virgin snow that know no end,
climbing past windows to eternity--
there is no temporality to mend
the blotted out lives that the eye can't see;
the sea! The brilliant light of being there,
whole for a time, believing we exist,
exulting, sharing what the heart's laid bare,
not yet in darkness where all things are missed.
Where is their closure for the heart's desire,
except in instant death, all tightly sealed,
the famous city abandoned with its choir,
the true and only love at last revealed.

[Michael Cantor]

Well, somebody's gotta start. If I wanted to be nice, I'd say it's not my kind of poem. Abstraction piled on abstraction, vaguely dated, vaguely silly. Oh well - I can't be nice. I think it's dreadful. All that virgin snow, climbing past the windows to eternity, the brilliant light of being there, and on and on and on. Is this a joke? Written by a computer?

[B. N. Faraj]

Hi Sam,

I think Ben’s work is readable. I like the poem. If you’re looking at with an editor’s eye, you certainly can find specifics to harp on. But if he was giving a reading within a couple of miles of me, I’d listen to him. How about you?

[Nigel Mace]

This seems an easy target but given the amount of duff verse around I'm more interested in why, Sam, you've picked on this?
The high-flown cliches are wince-making and there is some dreadfully lumpy metre, but on this site, whose main poetic concern is suppoosed to be workshopping, it seems a bit unfair to be taking free hits at this when its author doesn't appear to be around to take part.

[William A. Baurle]

Originally Posted by Nigel Mace

This seems an easy target but given the amount of duff verse around I'm more interested in why, Sam, you've picked on this?
The high-flown cliches are wince-making and there is some dreadfully lumpy metre, but on this site, whose main poetic concern is suppoosed to be workshopping, it seems a bit unfair to be taking free hits at this when its author doesn't appear to be around to take part.

Not so to me. I think I'm one of the ones that posted a "duff" poem lately, and perhaps inspired another one, judging by the recent critique (which I don't agree with, necessarily).

Don't know what you mean by "duff", but it doesn't sound good! I was blinded by pride and a lack of distance from my latest poem. I think the other picked-on poem was just what it said it was, a song, and as a song, and a friendly song to a friend, I believe it's perfectly decent and fine.

I wonder what you would consider "dreadfully lumpy metre" in the above poem? It reads as loose IP to me, quite modern and not dreadful at all.

I am, like you, curious about Sam's reasons for asking for critique on this poem.

[Roger Slater]

I don't see what's "unfair" about engaging in literary criticism without the author of the text being present. We do that all the time. I doubt very much that having the poet show up to defend his work would change our opinion of the poem, which must make its own way in the world without the poet serving as its chaperone.

And I agree, it's pretty horrible.

[Nigel Mace]

"The sheets of virgin snow that know no end,
climbing past windows to eternity--
there is no temporality to mend
the blotted out lives that the eye can't see;"

On lumpy rhythms, Bill, just compare the easy 'run' of the first two lines with the awkwardness of the second two. You may not agree - but that is what I meant.

As to the poem's overall quality, I'm afraid I share Michael's crit.
Of course, Roger, it's not actually "unfair"; I just felt it was all a bit odd that this one, I thought pretty duff, poem by a deliberately not specified, but clearly known, author was plucked out to be laid before us.
I wondered why? - why this one? - and why in this way? If Sam thinks Ben Mazer over-rated, why not start a debate with this poem - or if he feels that this poem represents some sad descent from BM's usual high standard, why not say so? It just seemed a bit odd.

[Aaron Novick]

Originally Posted by William A. Baurle

I wonder what you would consider "dreadfully lumpy metre" in the above poem? It reads as loose IP to me, quite modern and not dreadful at all.

Some of it is acceptable as loose iambic pentameter, but some of it is just hard to read in a way that doesn't sound stilted, e.g.

the blotted out lives that the eye can't see

I think this has to be scanned as two anapests bracketed by two iambs, in principle a fine substitution, but "-ted out lives" trips me up a first time because "out" easily could take a stress (only when you get to "lives" do you realize it can't), and then, while still recovering from that, there's the second anapest, which hits like a second insult. And even reading this after getting over these initial stumbles, I still think it sounds bad.

As for the rest of the poem's issues, others have covered them well.

[R. S. Gwynn]

It was posted on Facebook by the author, Ben Mazer, so I figure it's fair game for critique. The FB comments were very positive, especially on the level of craft. I don't have a problem with the craft; the pentameters are solid enough, and the abab rhyme scheme is consistent, even if some of the rhymes themselves are not so hot.

What disturbs me is the level of abstraction, which is extremely high. The poem has a single image--"sheets of virgin snow"--which is not very fresh. Everything else is stated as abstraction or generalization. I was wondering what the response would be if it had been posted on Metrical Poetry.

Can a poem with this many abstractions mean anything?

I made a comment about "sheets of virgin snow" on FB. Apparently it was removed by the author.

[Aaron Novick]

Ok, but it's facebook, not exactly the land of standards is it?

(cross-posted with your edit)