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  #21  
Unread 11-15-2015, 10:05 AM
Ann Drysdale's Avatar
Ann Drysdale Ann Drysdale is offline
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Good suggestion, Susan. I think this is really needs its small obscenity and is all the better for having it restored. I think this is my favourite.
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  #22  
Unread 11-15-2015, 12:12 PM
Susan McLean Susan McLean is offline
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Ann, it will be my epitaph: "She preserved the obscenity."

Susan
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  #23  
Unread 11-16-2015, 02:39 AM
Mary McLean Mary McLean is offline
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Tricky! I agree with Susan and others that this loses something by missing out the 'cons', but that word has a lot more emotive force in English than in French, which also makes it a less faithful translation in a funny way. Notably the French comedy 'Le diner des cons' was performed in London as 'See you next Tuesday' to preserve a sly reference to the obscenity without causing serious offence. For this song, Roger is probably on the right lines suggesting 'shits'. I wondered about something like:
I'll be pardoned for my tricks.
I am king, the king of pricks.
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  #24  
Unread 11-16-2015, 09:28 AM
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Marion Shore Marion Shore is offline
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Mary, you nailed it!
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  #25  
Unread 11-16-2015, 10:58 AM
Brian Allgar Brian Allgar is offline
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I have to say that I was unable to listen to the French version all the way through. The relentless boom-boom of the percussion makes it exactly the kind of music that I detest.

Still, that's not the fault of the translator, nor indeed of the Yodeller, whose unaccompanied version provided blessed relief from the aural torment.

It's a long song, and there are lots of good things in the translation, but it would take me too long to go through it line by line.

I didn't like "I chase my tail" for "Je tourne en rond (I go round in circles)", and I thought the "beagle" line a bit overblown.

I have to disagree with others about "le roi des cons". Yes, "con" can sometimes mean "cunt", but in everyday usage it is more the equivalent of "bloody idiot", and has about the same force.
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  #26  
Unread 11-16-2015, 11:37 AM
Susan McLean Susan McLean is offline
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Brian, that's good to know. My French is far from idiomatic, and those nuances are important.

Susan
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  #27  
Unread 11-16-2015, 12:41 PM
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Martin Rocek Martin Rocek is offline
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Brian,
Thank you for the clarification--I was hoping that you would chime in.

"King of bloody idiots" is still not the same tone as "King of shame". That's what I had in mind with "King of shits", but you are right, it doesn't have the clear notion of stupidity; of course, neither does "King of shame".

I do love Mary's suggestion nonetheless.
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  #28  
Unread 11-16-2015, 12:52 PM
Brian Allgar Brian Allgar is offline
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Martin, I agree entirely that Mary's suggestion is a good one.
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  #29  
Unread 11-18-2015, 09:55 AM
Brian Allgar Brian Allgar is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Martin Rocek View Post
"King of bloody idiots" is still not the same tone as "King of shame". That's what I had in mind with "King of shits", but you are right, it doesn't have the clear notion of stupidity; of course, neither does "King of shame".
"King of berks" or "King of jerks" come to mind.
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  #30  
Unread 11-19-2015, 04:29 AM
Mary McLean Mary McLean is offline
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A big thanks to everyone, and particularly Julie, for their comments. I had lots of fun with this translation, and I’m delighted that many of you found something to like in it.

I disliked “I am a real Cro-Magnon man” principally because I wanted all of the stanzas to start with “I am a man,” and particularly the first one. But also Cro-Magnon is a bit obscure and is stressed differently in English, making it a clunky word in meter. What would people suggest? Perhaps “I am a man, Cro-Magnon man.” But I still prefer caveman.

On the question of the obscenity, I’m glad people generally like my suggested revision. (And apologies to Martin that in that post I bizarrely christened him Roger). I originally rejected this sort of solution because the first half of the line seemed too many syllables to match the “au fond” of the original. Maybe I constrained myself too tightly with that restriction, since it was clearly possible to fit in extra syllables where needed in such a loose tune.

Probably Julie is right that it should be monkey not ape, for the tail. I changed it largely because I didn’t want words bridging the mid-line pauses. (Effectively I wrote these stanzas as xaxaxbxb, rather than aabb). I see now that was crazily over-restrictive. I’m still stuck with whale for the rhyme though.

Sam, my final version (as sung) was “I explore the question’s core,” which I prefer. If “core” is the part you dislike, I can’t see a good way to reword it without an inversion, like “every question I explore.” Any other possibilities occur? Marion, “win some fights, and yet I fail” sounds good to me, thanks, though rewording this whole stanza is still a possibility.

Skip, I can’t believe anyone actually wants even more rhyme shoe-horned into this thing. And my bridge does include a hint of internal rhyming devices, with the assonance of I/fire, the consonance of blazing/blistering, and the repetition of world and men.

It’s a fair comment that my translation, with its bitchin’ wheels etc, is more explicity masculine than the original. And maybe that is a loss, but I’m sticking to it. It seems to me that most of the behaviours Zazie was criticizing are predominantly but not exclusively masculine behaviours, and that’s still true in my version.

And yes, I’m aware that I probably went too far with the “boar at bay” line. What can I say? I was having fun, I couldn’t stop myself. Typical Homo sapiens excess (and excuse).
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