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  #1  
Unread 04-27-2012, 12:55 AM
Jeff Holt Jeff Holt is offline
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Default Start a metrical poetry group in Dallas?

Okay, this started out as a reply to an invitation to another one of hundreds of invitations to awesome poetry readings and like events that seem to occur in one of the boroughs of New York City--often Brooklyn, with so many great poets being clustered there--as well as in Massachusetts, especially around Newburyport, where the mighty Powwow River Poets hold court--and West Chester, Pennsylvania, naturally, where I get to visit every 2-3 years and feel both fantastic and overcome with envy simply for the growth promoting atmosphere for poets!!--and numerous other places as far, far away from Dallas, Texas as they could possibly be.

Dallas.... What is the atmosphere of Dallas like? Slick. Veeery surface. Money, Fundamentalist Christianity, and Sex, Sex, Sex. Then all of the extreme poverty, of course, that doesn't make it onto all of the billboards filled with brightly smiling, half naked Stepford People. On the show "Good Christian Bitches," which I wound up watching the first episode of, the main character states, at the end of the show, that Dallas, statistically, has more churches per capita than any other city, and also more strip clubs per capita--the great double standard. I don't know, or care, if that statistic is true--it feels true, regardless.

So, what does Dallas have for a poetry scene? About 8 years ago, when I was single, I went looking, and the ONLY people I found were the Dallas Slam Poets, who were doing something completely different than me, or anyone in whom I was interested. I went to a few of their readings, and even stood up and recited Larkin's "This Be the Verse," as well as a couple of really dark Frost poems, before launching into some of my angriest stuff. People clapped, and I made my tiny impact, but it SO was NOT my scene.... It was more like a bunch of (predominantly) white people who were actually able to write pretty clever rap lyrics (a rare thing) and then PERFORM them.... everything was about the performance..... I got bored with it very quickly and cut out.

So, whenever people ask me if I go to poetry readings, I tend to respond with melancholy or bitter chuckles, explaining that the poetry I write just doesn't fit in around here... Then I wonder if I sound pompous and/or self-pitying and hate that. And thus I have existed, feeling trapped in Texas.... Like a country song (which I hear too many of, simply b/c I live here)... "trapped in Dallas with mah meeeter an' mah rhyme / Ain't no one 'round heah wanna paaaay me no mind....."

Now, Rhina Espaillat has always told me, when I have lamented the lack of anything in my area happening, that I should organize something myself. Well, because I am needed as Daddy at all 3 year old functions for the twins on weekends, and tend to work 10-11 hour days at my managed care job, I really don't think that I can organize something completely on my own.

However, it did occur to me that it wouldn't hurt to take the first step and just put a post out here, asking: Is anyone here from Dallas? Plano? Garland? Frisco? Somewhere else within driving distance? More specifically, is there anyone here who would be interested in getting together semi-regularly (even just once a month would be a great start) just to read metrical poetry? My ideal would be to have a group of anywhere from 5-10 people who showed up somewhere who simply loved poetry and, regardless of whether they had something of their own to read, would bring along work by a metrical poet whom they loved to share with the rest of us. If a person did have their own work to read, that's great, but I would definitely want to include something from a poet from the great tradition. This is actually something that I picked up from Dana Gioia, when I was first listening to him read.

But anyway, that is getting awfully specific for something that does not, at this point, exist. I first need to know if there are any like minded souls out there who exist within this proximity. I do know that Frederick Turner teaches fairly close by where I live, but I am betting that he would be too busy for this, though it would not hurt to contact him.

So, to quote the Pink Floyd song that has been running through my head all day, "Is there anybody out there?"
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  #2  
Unread 04-28-2012, 02:52 PM
Uche Ogbuji Uche Ogbuji is offline
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Hi Jeff,

I used to live in Dallas, around 1995, and that's where I tried to revive dreams of a poetic community which I'd missed since I left University in Nigeria in '88. The closest thing I found was a group of poets who met weekly at the Milam Art gallery. After I'd read people would come up to me and say "man I didn't know anyone still tries to write like T.S. Eliot!" In other words, they seemed to tolerate me as an atavistic curiosity. It was decent company, mostly slam poets and people clinging on the the Beat movement with their bleeding fingernails. I did eventually tire of it a bit, and wend back to my solitary writing habit. Anyway, if you do succeed I'd be thrilled to hear it.

I must also take great issue with your saying that clever rap lyrics are a rare thing. There is plenty of hip-hop of astonishing lyrical virtuosity out there, though most of it is not on the Clear-Channel-run airwaves. I could quote long passages from Talib Kweli, Lyrics Born, Jean Grae, Mos Def, Pharoahe Monch, Black Thought, Lauryn Hill, The Genius, Canibus, Posdnous, Ghostface Killah, and even MF Doom which exhibit half the tropes laid out in any Elizabethan prosodic manual. And that's just in English. When you talk the likes of MC Solaar and Passi from France, Specializtz from Germany, Born Here from Palestine, MC Paul Barman (sorta) from Israel... I'll pluck one example out of hundreds of the global power of eloquent rap lyrics, if you speak French just give a listen to El Général's "Rais" which sparked the Tunisian revolution and thus the Arab Spring.

I've had formalist poets tell me how impressed they are with Eminem, though I usually have to respond that he doesn't even make my top 25 hip-hop lyricists.
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  #3  
Unread 04-28-2012, 03:19 PM
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W.F. Lantry W.F. Lantry is offline
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Jeff,

There are tons of poets in Dallas and the outlying areas. The place is just dripping with them. But most of the ones I've run into are poets first, and metrical is just a part of their toolkit. You may need to expand your reach a little to succeed.

Step one would be to go on to facebook and start building a network. Poets flock to venues for readings, so once you've got a network going you might look into starting up something in a bistro or elsewhere.

When Kate and I went to our first Poetry Lab event, there were two people in the audience: me and Kate. But the guy held them every month, and it wasn't long before the place was packed. It's all doable, it just takes energy, a network, and a little gumption. You would have to be the center of that energy, so you need to ask yourself if you're willing to go through the tribulations of starting up, in order to get to the eventual rewards, whatever those may be...

Best,

Bill
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  #4  
Unread 04-28-2012, 03:45 PM
David Rosenthal David Rosenthal is offline
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Jeff,

I have no insight into a Dallas gathering, but I can somewhat commiserate. There are a million regular readings in the Bay Area, but outside of some hip-hop/slam things, there is nothing focused on formal poetry. When I have read at opens, the reaction is generally warm, but there aren't usually many others reading metered stuff. So I decided to start my own monthly series focusing on form -- there is a current thread about it over in GA. Anyway, my girls are teenagers now, and am getting better at containing my 12 hour days, so it is something I can do. Also, I have a friend with a good space.

So starting something up -- even just a poetry circle or something -- sounds like a great idea. The more such things we all do all over the place, the better, I say. I wish you luck, and I'll PM you if I'm ever in Dallas so I know where to bring meter to read.

Best,

David R.
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  #5  
Unread 04-28-2012, 04:31 PM
Jeff Holt Jeff Holt is offline
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[quote=Uche Ogbuji;243155]Hi Jeff,

I must also take great issue with your saying that clever rap lyrics are a rare thing. There is plenty of hip-hop of astonishing lyrical virtuosity out there, though most of it is not on the Clear-Channel-run airwaves. I could quote long passages from Talib Kweli, Lyrics Born, Jean Grae, Mos Def, Pharoahe Monch, Black Thought, Lauryn Hill, The Genius, Canibus, Posdnous, Ghostface Killah, and even MF Doom which exhibit half the tropes laid out in any Elizabethan prosodic manual. And that's just in English. When you talk the likes of MC Solaar and Passi from France, Specializtz from Germany, Born Here from Palestine, MC Paul Barman (sorta) from Israel... I'll pluck one example out of hundreds of the global power of eloquent rap lyrics, if you speak French just give a listen to El Général's "Rais" which sparked the Tunisian revolution and thus the Arab Spring.

I appreciate your response, Uche. Actually, I confess, I know very little about rap--just a few late 80s groups I liked a little in high school, such as NWA and Ice T, and a little mid 80s rap, such as Run DMC and the ultra silly, but very fun Beastie Boys. What I want to clarify, though, is that I wasn't saying clever rap lyrics were rare. In fact, I wasn't making any serious statement at all, except to say that the Dallas slammers, at least eight years ago, made me think far more of white people who could actually rap quite cleverly than what I, personally, was looking for in poetry. As a casual side remark, I stated that white people rapping cleverly was was a rare thing. I suppose I should have added "in my experience, b/c for all I know there could be millions of brilliant underground white rapppers; I just wouldn't know, nor particularly care.

So if anyone wants to take issue with something I said, he or she could say that I'm prejudiced against white rappers. Since I'm white, and haven't heard any white rappers but Vanilla Ice (shudder) and Eminem, whom I simply find annoying, I felt comfortable in making this crack. However, as I've said, I realize I could be absolutely wrong about this. However, it wouldn't change anything I was really intent on saying; it was a very minor point.

Last edited by Jeff Holt; 04-28-2012 at 08:04 PM. Reason: Incorrect dates
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  #6  
Unread 04-28-2012, 04:32 PM
Mark Blaeuer Mark Blaeuer is offline
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Hi, Jeff.

Alas, I'm a tad far away--about 300 miles--to attend except when visiting the Dallas area, which at present I rarely do. Actually, I haven't been there (not counting layovers at the airport) in about 30 years. But I'd be interested in hearing more about your efforts when you succeed. Maybe you could post a note on GA when you and like-minded poets have readings? I'm retired now and have more leeway in my schedule.

It occurs to me that the Directory of Poets & Writers might be a useful tool here, if you were willing to contact folks who live within a reasonable radius of your location. Here's a link for those listed in Texas (yes, I realize how big the state is; I had to help drive across it for a training session at Big Bend National Park once!): http://www.pw.org/connect/state/writers/tx.

Word-of-mouth will probably help, too, but that takes awhile to kick in.

Anyway, I sympathize and wish you phenomenally good luck.

Mark
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  #7  
Unread 04-28-2012, 04:42 PM
Jesse Anger Jesse Anger is offline
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I've had formalist poets tell me how impressed they are with Eminem, though I usually have to respond that he doesn't even make my top 25 hip-hop lyricists.

Word. I'll co-sign that.
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  #8  
Unread 04-28-2012, 05:02 PM
Michael Juster Michael Juster is offline
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Frederic Turner is at the University of Dallas--he might know some people and he might do a kickoff reading. I've only met him twice--he's a bit reserved, but very nice.
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  #9  
Unread 04-28-2012, 06:24 PM
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Katie Hoerth Katie Hoerth is offline
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Hi Jeff!

Oh! I feel your pain. Unfortunately, I'm about a ten hours south of you... (yeah, Texas is that enormous).

Where I'm at in Deep South Texas, we have a pretty humble and friendly poetry community. It's mostly free versers, we've got a handful of slammers, and a lot of poets who write in Spanish. I'm the metrical weirdo in the mix! But, you know, even so, it feels really nice to be a part of a face to face poetry community. While I wish there were more formalists 'round these parts for workshop and such, being the odd ducky isn't so bad. Anyway, I like to think we have much more in common than we do differences.

In Dallas -- there's a DPC, no? Dallas Poets Community? I've heard of them, have a few acquaintances involved in it... don't know how metrical they are though.

By the way, I'm coming up to Dallas to read/give workshop/sign books sometime this summer . Don't know the details just yet. I've never read at a Dallas venue before, so I'm a bit nervous!

Good luck, Jeff!

K.
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  #10  
Unread 04-28-2012, 08:18 PM
Jeff Holt Jeff Holt is offline
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[quote=Katie Hoerth

By the way, I'm coming up to Dallas to read/give workshop/sign books sometime this summer .

Good luck, Jeff!

K.[/QUOTE]

Thanks Katie! Hey, let me know when you're coming to Dallas, especially if you're going to have a reading open to the public. I'd love to be there!
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