Eratosphere Forums - Metrical Poetry, Free Verse, Fiction, Art, Critique, Discussions Able Muse - a review of poetry, prose and art

Forum Left Top

Notices

Reply
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Unread 03-26-2004, 02:04 AM
Leila Montour Leila Montour is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Tulsa, Oklahoma
Posts: 555
Question

Found poetry- and is it really yours, even though you lineate or edit the original text you find? I found something on the NASA website that struck me, turned it into a poem, and emailed the two folks named as editors/writers.

Basically, they wrote it, but I saw soemthing else in it. How does one attribute a found poem, etc? Ethical issues, authorship issues, etc?

just for FYI, this is the original source:
http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap040323.html

and this is what I did with it:

Magellan and Venus
(Found Poem from the NASA website)


The hot surface
of Venus shows clear signs
of lava flows. Evidence
of this was bolstered
by Magellan, who
orbited Venus
in the early 1990s.

Using imaging radar,
Magellan peered beneath
the thick, perpetual clouds
that covered her.

The hot, dense
climate makes Venus
a more difficult planet
for landing.
She currently
sparkles as the brightest
object in the western sky
after sunset.

Reply With Quote
  #2  
Unread 03-26-2004, 07:41 AM
Wild Bill Wild Bill is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: San Antonio, TX, USA
Posts: 1,151
Post

I think you probably fulfilled any obligation you have by citing the NASA website. The rest is fair use.

I have a couple questions of my own: What is in your lineation that is not in the original text? What is the "something else" that makes this a poem and not relineated prose?


Bill
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Unread 03-26-2004, 08:32 AM
DianeDT DianeDT is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Covington, LA, USA
Posts: 80
Post

Found Poetry is currently a hot item and is being requested by a number of publications. I guess it became more popular after the Rumsfeld thing.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Unread 03-26-2004, 08:58 AM
Rose Kelleher's Avatar
Rose Kelleher Rose Kelleher is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Maryland, USA
Posts: 3,745
Post

Good question, Bill. Not that I know what I'm talking about when it comes to found poetry, but my answer would be that not everyone who read this passage in the original text would have recognized its potential as a poem - it's kind of like a little gold nugget hidden in the side of a mine. If this were a written poem, it wouldn't be as effective (for me anyway) - there's something sort of magical about knowing it was created by accident.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Unread 03-26-2004, 08:59 AM
Michael Cantor Michael Cantor is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Plum Island, MA; Santa Fe, NM
Posts: 11,168
Post

Leila -

I agree with Bill. The "something" you brought to the poem involved a bit of pruning and paraphrase - and lineation. That can be done with any textbook or encyclopedia or newspaper article, and if the base article has some essential interest - or better yet, hints of romance or mysticism - the result looks like poetry. But it is to poetry as a micro-waved Stouffers Special is to cooking.

Tim Murphy has written a number of "found" poems treating with his Dakota neighbors and surroundings, and centered on overheard dialogue (I think Tim has also used road signs). I've heard Tim read them (can't readily find any to post, unfortunately, but possibly Tim can help if he drops by and reads this thread) and thought most were wonderful - but Tim uses the "found" language as a starting point, and embeds it in language of his own creation - builds a poem around the "found" phrase, and in so doing elevates and displays the original language. That's poetry. What you are doing here is editing.

Michael Cantor
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Unread 03-26-2004, 09:18 AM
Rhina P. Espaillat Rhina P. Espaillat is offline
Honorary Poet Lariat
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,008
Post

I thin Mike is right: the "poetry" part of "found poetry" is in what you do with it, but that doesn't necessarily involve language. Here's a passage from a union contract that I roared over and "edited" into a "found poem" (I hope)by means of punctuation:

DEATH BENEFIT

A person who dies
before becoming eligible for
retirement
is entitled to
the following benefits:
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Unread 03-26-2004, 10:19 AM
Roger Slater Roger Slater is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: New York
Posts: 16,476
Post

That's great, Rhina. A poem ending in a colon!

I selected, strung together and gave an order to various signs in English that people on the internet have reported seeing in various countries, gave it a title of my own, and came up with a "found poem". I confess, I felt a little guilty calling it a poem of my own, but Light still took it:


GAINED IN TRANSLATION
a found poem

You are invited to take advantage of the chambermaid.
Our wines leave you nothing to hope for.
Ladies are requested not to have children in the bar.
Would you like to ride on your own ass?
Please leave your values at the front desk.
Special cocktails for the ladies with nuts.
We take your bags and send them in all directions.

Reply With Quote
  #8  
Unread 03-26-2004, 10:27 AM
Tim Murphy Tim Murphy is offline
Lariat Emeritus
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Fargo ND, USA
Posts: 13,816
Post

Outside the village of Cogswell was a sign saying "Welcome, home to 69 friendly people and one mean S.O.B."
That became:

Dakota Greeting

Frosted sign in a frozen ditch:
Stranger, welcome to Oakes,
home to hundreds of friendly folks
and one mean son-of-a-bitch.

The last couplet of the following was overheard in a bar:

The Honey Wagon

Some say the custom cutters wheeled
and dealed at his expense.
Some say the aphids ate his yield
and call it negligence.
Some of the neighbors’ lips are sealed,
but folks with common sense
say you can’t fertilize a field
by farting through the fence.

I'd say about one third of my poems are found, that is, I catch a fragment of memorable, metrical speech, which gives me the tune for a poem. Leila's poem may be found, but it ain't no poem.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Unread 03-26-2004, 10:32 AM
oliver murray oliver murray is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: belfast, northern ireland.
Posts: 2,348
Post

Leila,

Yes, Mike is right, and found items can make the basis of wonderful poems, but not, I think, whole poems.

It depends on what we mean by poem. In the sense that anything lineated is a poem, then any piece of prose, lineated deliberately, whether found or not, IS a poem.
Sometimes prose pieces can be found which fall or almost fall into meter, but even these are not "poems" in the highest sense. Here is a piece I found from, I think, Canon Law, which fell into IP lines with very small changes, but I wouldn't claim it is a poem.


The Stations of the Cross


If there are no Franciscan Fathers in
that place, then bishops who already have
obtained from the Holy See, the form that's known
as the Extraordinary of Form C
can delegate that any priest erect
the Stations and this delegation of
a certain priest to give the blessing must
be done in writing necessarily.

While pictures or tableaux are not required
(to the cross alone indulgence is attached)
these crosses must be made of wood and no
material of any other kind
will do. If only painted on the wall
erection is not only null but void.

Regards,

Oliver.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Unread 03-26-2004, 12:16 PM
Susan McLean Susan McLean is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Iowa City, IA, USA
Posts: 10,090
Post

This is the only found poem I have ever written. For my taste, a found poem often works best when there are ironic aspects to the original that allow it to be read in more than one way.

Susan


Guidelines for Romance--A Found Poem

--from the guidelines for Signet's
Scarlet Ribbons historical romances

The story is told in the third person,
largely from the heroine's point of view.
She should be young, the hero slightly older,
and, if not American, of a nationality
with which the reader can identify--
such as Scottish, English, or Irish. She should be
intelligent, strong-willed, and independent,
and should not sleep with numerous other men.
Rape of the heroine by the hero,
except in certain very special circumstances,
is to be avoided. No gang rapes.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump



Forum Right Top
Forum Left Bottom Forum Right Bottom
 
Right Left
Member Login
Forgot password?
Forum LeftForum Right


Forum Statistics:
Forum Members: 8,399
Total Threads: 21,840
Total Posts: 270,803
There are 1133 users
currently browsing forums.
Forum LeftForum Right


Forum Sponsor:
Donate & Support Able Muse / Eratosphere
Forum LeftForum Right
Right Right
Right Bottom Left Right Bottom Right

Hosted by ApplauZ Online