[Mark Allinson]

I was reading Bill's "Goblet" thread, and the discussion about how many syllables there are in "annealed".

Surfing around, I found this site, which has a syllable counter

This engine tells us that "kneeled" is one syllable. So "annealed" (which isn't in their dictionary) would be two syllables.

It also confirms that "fire" is one syllable, NOT two.

Try it out on words you have wondered about.

Any disagreements?

[E. Shaun Russell]

Well, when it comes to metrics there are many words whose syllable counts vary by context. If you have several lines in IP, then find "fire" in the middle of a line that might otherwise have nine syllables...well...chances are you'll scan the word as having two syllables. I know that "fire" and "hour" among others have been used as both one and two syllables in my sonnets, depending wholly on the context. There are many either-or words.

One poem I was just re-reading a few minutes before opening this thread has the word "jaguar" as three syllables, though that syllable counter claims it has only two. It all depends.

[Maryann Corbett]

This just in: people and pronunciations are different.

If you're an old fogey like me, you have clear aural memory of The Doors singing "fi-yuh" at the end of every line of "Light My Fire." (And if you're not, YouTube will provide the evidence.)

I will have to hunt for an old thread in which Sam challenged us to scan a certain line as pentameter; what made that scansion possible was hearing the lines with a strong Southern (US) accent, so that a name like Lyle became two syllables. I'll link when I find it.

Any syllable with a mid-to-front vowel and a closure to L or R can become a two-syllable thing in some regional dialects. Ears have to adjust.

Editing back: I've found it, and I must amend what I wrote. It's not just front vowels, and it's not just L and R. See for yourself.

[Michael Cantor]

What Shaun and Maryann said. Mark, that simplistic site you dragged up should be renamed Syllables for Idiots - but I think you knew that, and are playing games again.

[E. Shaun Russell]

Here's one that isn't in that simplistic syllable counter, and I think might be right on the cusp of what is justifiably scanned as either two or three: changeling. I tend to pronounce it as three: "cheyn - djuh - ling". Dictionary.com has it strictly as two: "cheynj - ling". Context is king, but I suppose it could cause some definite scanning issues for some.

[David Rosenthal]

Originally Posted by Michael Cantor

What Shaun and Mary said. Mark, that simplistic site you dragged up should be renamed Syllables for Idiots - but I think you knew that, and are playing games again.

qft (as the young folks say type)

[Mark Allinson]

Yes, Michael, I admit that the site I linked is merely a prop for a discussion on syllables.

I think words like "fire" are the most disputed types. Looking through Donne's stuff, he invariably counts it as a single syllable.

Who, apart from songwriters, hears two syllables?

[Petra Norr]

I'm pretty sure that both Wordsworth and Shakespeare have poems where a certain word appears twice in the poem but in each case has a different syllable count. Due to elision, of course. I can't remember any specific examples. Maybe someone else can find them for me. ;-)

[Mark Allinson]

Hi, Petra,

I just searched Shakespeare's sonnets for "fire" and found 11 uses, all as a single syllable:


The other two, slight air and purging fire,


Nor Mars his sword nor war's quick fire shall burn


In me thou seest the glowing of such fire


Till my bad angel fire my good one out.


And his love-kindling fire did quickly steep


Which borrowed from this holy fire of Love


But at my mistress' eye Love's brand new-fired,


Where Cupid got new fire - my mistress' eyes.


The fairest votary took up that fire


Which from Love's fire took heat perpetual,


Love's fire heats water, water cools not love.

[Chris Childers]

Dude, you pronounce things the way the poem tells you to, and you LIKE IT. Word.