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  #1  
Unread 08-03-2009, 07:22 AM
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Chris Childers Chris Childers is offline
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Default TB5: Lope de Vega

Various Effects of Love

To be fainthearted, to be bold, possessed,
abrasive, tender, open, isolated,
spirited, dying, dead, invigorated,
loyal, treacherous, venturesome, repressed.

Not to find, without your lover, rest.
To seem happy, sad, haughty, understated,
emboldened, fugitive, exasperated,
satisfied, offended, doubt-obsessed.

To face away from disillusionment,
believing heaven lies contained in hell,
forsaking gain, embracing discontent;

to swallow venom like liqueur, and sell
your soul to live in disillusionment;
that’s love, as all who’ve tasted know too well.



Original:

Varios Efectos del Amor

de Lope de Vega

Desmayarse, atreverse, estar furioso,
áspero, tierno, liberal, esquivo,
alentado, mortal, difunto, vivo,
leal, traidor, cobarde, animoso.

No hallar, fuera del bien, centro y reposo.
Mostrarse alegre, triste, humilde, altivo,
enojado, valiente, fugitivo,
satisfecho, ofendido, receloso.

Huir el rostro al claro desengaño,
beber veneno por licor suave,
olvidar el provecho, amar el daño.

Creer que un cielo en un infierno cabe,
dar la vida y el alma a un desengaño;
esto es amor, quien lo probó lo sabe.



Prose literal translation:

To be dismayed, to be daring, to be furious,
rough, tender, liberal, aloof,
encouraged, mortal, dead, alive,
loyal, treacherous, cowardly, courageous.

Not to find, away from your lover, peace and repose.
To appear happy, sad, humble, arrogant,
angry, brave, fugitive,
satisfied, offended, fearful.

To turn your face away from clear deceit,
to drink poison as smooth liquor,
to forget benefit, to love injury.

To believe that a heaven in a hell is contained,
to give your life and soul to a disappointment;
this is love, whoever has tasted it knows it.

Last edited by Chris Childers; 08-03-2009 at 03:09 PM.
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  #2  
Unread 08-03-2009, 07:24 AM
Rachel Hadas Rachel Hadas is offline
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Default Lope de Vega, "Various Effects of Love"

A pleasure from start to finish: full of brio & insight & grace. The only
place where one scents a hint of translationese is in line 5, yet I see
that the Spanish also has the slightly stretched inverted word-order, so
probably this line too is fully intentional.
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  #3  
Unread 08-03-2009, 07:33 AM
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Chris Childers Chris Childers is offline
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Could a moderator add 'TB5: ' to the title of this thread, for the sake of regularity in formatting? It seems my lot to make one minor error per day. I may be delayed today in getting my own comments up, but everyone else should have at it...
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Unread 08-03-2009, 07:38 AM
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Maryann Corbett Maryann Corbett is offline
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Happy to oblige about the thread title. And while I'm here let me say I like this a lot, and the only thing I wish for is that the bumpy rhythms of the first two stanzas continued the whole way through instead of evening out so much in the last two. That jolting quality mirrors the sense so well!
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Unread 08-03-2009, 08:21 AM
Andrew Frisardi Andrew Frisardi is offline
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I remember this one well from the Translation forum. It's looking great. No nits whatever--my favorite so far, I think.
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Unread 08-03-2009, 08:44 AM
Roger Slater Roger Slater is online now
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Wonderful indeed.

My only question is L13. The lover does not want to live in disillusionment. On the contrary, the lover does not want to be disillusioned at all. I think that the second use of desengaño comes closer to the word used in the prose trot, disappointment. The problem for the translator is that desengaño is repeated as an end word but means something different in each instance. In the first instance, it means that the lover refuses to face facts, refuses to allow himself to be disabused. In the second instance, it means that the lover is willing to live in a constant state of disappointment. There may not be a single word in English that allows of both these meanings, which puts the translator in a pickle. On the one hand, it's desirable to repeat the end words as the original does, but the challenge is to find a way to do so that embraces both meanings.

Having said all this, I also see that a case can be made that these shifting meanings are also present in the text as translated.

In any event, a fabulous translation.
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Unread 08-03-2009, 08:51 AM
Terese Coe Terese Coe is offline
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I'm gobsmacked by both the original and the translation, especially "believing heaven lies contained in hell." This is my favorite so far as well. I'm withholding comment on "a heaven" and "a hell," which are an important consideration. I'll be back if I have more to add.
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Unread 08-03-2009, 09:00 AM
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Chris Childers Chris Childers is offline
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I'll post and be brief, since I don't have a ton to say anyway. The poem itself reminds me of "The expense of spirit in a waste of shame," (particularly the last line, vs. "yet none knows well / to shun the heaven that leads men to this hell.") and it is interesting to note that Vega (1562-1634) and Shakespeare (1564-1616) are exact contemporaries. Rhetorically it is very deft, with the succession of infinitives leading up to and placing great weight on the last line, the poem's only full sentence, and the litany of adjectives fluently suggestive of the fluctuations of passion the lover experiences. When I looked at this before, I had a few picky objections, perhaps to "understated" for "humble" and "doubt-obsessed" for "fearful," but I'm less troubled by those now. The one thing perhaps worth discussing is the change of order in the sestet, where swallowing venom shifts places with heaven contained in hell. There is an alteration of emphasis there perhaps not quite in keeping with the poem's rhetorical intent; if possible I would try to flip those back into place. Overall, though, this is beautiful and faithful; very accomplished work.

Chris
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Unread 08-03-2009, 12:17 PM
Gregory Dowling Gregory Dowling is offline
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Yes, I'd thought of "The expense of spirit" as well, with that piling up of adjectives. Something very difficult to pull off but this succeeds beautifully. I agree with Andrew and Terese: my favourite (so far).
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  #10  
Unread 08-03-2009, 12:38 PM
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Seree Zohar Seree Zohar is offline
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useless as a 'crit'
but I just love it!
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