http://www.ablemuse.com/erato/ubbhtml/wink.gif Probably because I had never heard of it. I see there is a thread here from before I was around. I'll add it to the list to go on.

Thank you.

Charles - find a MUCH MUCH better example of fourteeners than Chuck Lipsig's appalling 'Americans in Hell', which is an example of how NOT to do it. This has put me off, I'm afraid.

P.S. I'd have expected this thread to be on General Announcements rather than on General Talk.

Charles - find a MUCH MUCH better example of fourteeners than Chuck Lipsig's appalling 'Americans in Hell', which is an example of how NOT to do it. This has put me off, I'm afraid.

You should make a distinction between being a bad example of a given form and a bad example of a poem. It is a bit loose as fourteeners, but I don't think he was actually thinking of fourteeners, per se, when he wrote it. Still, it isn't a terrible example of fourteeners. In fact, the first four lines demonstrate the rhythm and cæsura just about spot on.

As poetry, that is another discussion altogether, one that I'll duck out of as fast as possible.

If you'd like to submit a better example of your own, I'd be happy to look at it. It takes a long time to build a good example base, especially when one has hundreds of forms listed. If you look at many repositories of this kind, they have either no examples or ones that the author created for the occasion. I have done "practice" poems in more than 200 forms, but I'd rather not have it all illustrated with my work. Having seen what happens when others do that, I'd rather have no examples than all my own. In an earlier post, I explained the issues of copyright and off-site linking that I have with examples, in general. So, if you or another here has good examples that you would allow to be posted on the site, I would entertain the notion of presenting them as separate pages/examples.

In other words, don't just complain, do something about it. http://www.ablemuse.com/erato/ubbhtml/wink.gif

P.S. I'd have expected this thread to be on General Announcements rather than on General Talk.

Perhaps. If someone with power decided to move the thread there, I wouldn't argue it. That's the problem with having too many shades of fora. On other sites, they only have two or three: Critiques, Post your Perceived Brilliance, Discussion. It's much easier to track. Here? There's Metrical, the Deep End, Non-Metrical. And this last includes syllabic, which is a form of metrical. All very confusing to a simple man like me.

Mr. Weatherford--This is damned impressive. I wonder if you could help your readers with pronunciation where such things as Welsh forms are concerned.

Best,
Dave

See A Guide to Welsh Pronunciation at the following URL:
http://home.comcast.net/~bryant.katherine/appendix.html

So did Turco in his 'Book of Forms'. I'm not sure how well known it is.

Did he mention limeroids? *grin*

Charles

Good luck with the site. You might want to use Turco and The Princeton Encyclopedia as quick checks as to what you're missing. It will save you a lot of time, using the results of their legwork to compile a list.

I didn't notice the double dactyll listed (may have missed it) or, as Roger stated, the ovillejo. Rhina can give you the best info on that form.

Bless you! I surely didn't want to tackle that question, even though I do have some of the pronunciations as I have seen them. I have yet to be fully exposed to any of the Celtic languages, and I know that Welsh has sounds that we don't have in English, like the "ll" sound. I'll have to find a way to link that to the Welsh forms. After all, Welsh orthography is twp by my reckoning. http://www.ablemuse.com/erato/ubbhtml/biggrin.gif

Another one for the list, but do I really want to know? http://www.ablemuse.com/erato/ubbhtml/confused.gif

Double Dactyl

I don't have the Ovillejo, yet, but know where to find it now that I know it exists. I also have about 70 others that aren't in the list of 500. I need to fill out enough of the entry to make them coherent before putting them out, and I figured what I have is enough to get folks started and more than I've seen gathered anywhere else.

If anything in Turco is not on the site already, it's because he didn't define it well, and I haven't researched enough for a minimum filing on the entry.

As for Princeton, I discussed some of the difficulties above. I am going through it, and it is where I dug up some forms, like the zéhel/zahal, and definitions for others that Turco skimmed over.

In the last week, I've been more concerned about getting out my other resource, my list of Tips for Writing better Poetry and Song Lyrics . I have 90 of them out, and will have 100 listed before I go to bed. I have a bit over 200 total, so should have them all up with at least minimal entries by the end of the weekend. This is going much faster than the forms. Of course, there are also fewer fields and cross-linking, and I'm simplifying some of the tips since they reference information that will be in the Forms repository. I'm also eliminating almost all of my home-grown examples that are in the books.

I've been working on these two projects to put together books for at least four years. No need for other hobbies when one is doing this sort of stuff. I'm just glad I finally decided to put them out unfinished on the Web. They are still good resources unfinished, and it takes some of the pressure off to get them out as books.

Still, I welcome any forms I've missed or ideas for writing better poetry. Just don't send the latter to me yet, since less than half the ones I have are out. No need to duplicate. http://www.ablemuse.com/erato/ubbhtml/wink.gif

Charley