I think if any example apart from D Thomas should alter your opinion it's Derek Mahon's 'Antarctica'. As perfect as possible.

And let's not forget Elizabeth Bishop, Sylvia Plath, Theodore Roethke
and WH Auden: http://www.cs.rice.edu/~ssiyer/minstrels/poems/677.html

Of course it's a damnably difficult form, like the sestina, and of course most poets can't (or won't attempt to) write a memorable example. That doesn't mean it's silly or defunct though.

I wrote this for the other thread then decided it should be here but it's an interruption, I see that:

I think good villanelles are the hardest thing of all to write and I think, ideally, they could be most successful when the repetends stay the same and the poem moves around them.

This moves a little:
The Waking

The reason Dylan Thomas's villanelle is parodied so much is because it has sunk into all of our minds. And let's not start that argument again.
Janet

[This message has been edited by Janet Kenny (edited November 18, 2006).]

I've posted this before (I believe it was the first poem I ever posted on the Sphere), but thanks, Quincy, for giving me a half an excuse to put it up again.

Do Not Go Gentle into that Quenelle

I wish I could create a villanelle
With poet’s flourish, and a sous-chef’s care,
As sweet and subtle as a plump quenelle.

....A proper, formal Miss, of classic phrase,
....Her soft, hypnotic voice can weave a spell
....That leaves this anxious suitor in a daze:
....She is my siren of the villanelle.

I must find piquant lines that mingle well
(The recipe demands a perfect pair)
With which I could create that villanelle

As easily as I take shrimp and shell
Them, grind them, beat in egg whites full of air
And sweetly, subtly, raise a plump quenelle.

....Those retold lines and oft-repeated rhymes,
....Old-fashionedly romantic Gallic pace,
....The ease with which she makes each point four times,
....Accent her elegance, her form, her grace.

But overlabored tercets will not swell
My dish - If I could blend their essence with the flair
I wish, I would create a villanelle

That marries words and verbs in parallel
With nutmeg, cayenne, heavy cream; prepare
It sweet and subtle; as a plump quenelle,

....And if she seems to stutter, just as well -
....No twists or turns or sonnets’ clever ways
....Disturb the quiet, mesmerizing swell
....Of every echolalic, encored phrase,

French-kissed with fruits de mer and bechamel,
A mix to metaphorically declare:
I wish I could create a villanelle
As sweet and subtle as a plump quenelle.

....As I begin to see that I adore
....A nagging and reiterative bore.

Gregory,
I dislike--have always disliked-- GKC's riposte because I think it lazy, or ignorant (and patronising because it states the bleeding obvious).
Why didn't he write it as a triolet?
Best,
David

David,

I think Chesterton's point is fair enough: how the hell can a poet who glimpses someone from a train know she's a woman "whom nobody loves"? There's a definite cultural arrogance there: I'm a poet and I know the right way to walk through a field - and I can prove my superior sensitivity by writing a triolet about it.

True, Chesterton might have made his satirical point more effectively if he'd used the triolet himself by way of riposte, but tightness and concision were never his strong points.

Gregory

Mark (et al.),

No, there is nothing inherently wrong with the villanelle, any more than there is with any other form. I'm sure there's a great double sestina out there, too. But the problem with the villanelle right now is its overuse. Mahon, Auden, Bishop, etc. wrote villanelles, sure, but not very often (nary a one in Mahon's last several books, certainly).

It isn't so much even a question of poetic chops... it's one of the material organically fitting the form. There are probably too many sonnets, too, but the latter is a far more versatile form.

Quincy

Yes, as I said, Gregory, he states the bleeding obvious.
(But I think Cornford was using the fat white woman to personify her own failings as she saw them; not really patronising at all.)
Quincy, there are tiny numbers of villanelles written compared with the number of sonnets.
Best,
David

The Fat White Lady Has a Few Nits

I wish you would vary your dull repetends
when you treat life as trite triolet -
especially when the poem offends.
I wish you would play with your dull repetends,
and try to remember when verse condescends
it helps to have something intriguing to say.
I wish you would vary your dull repetends
when you treat life as trite triolet, bitch!


[This message has been edited by Michael Cantor (edited November 18, 2006).]

David--

You're no doubt right, and rightfully so--in part because there are so many types of sonnets--blank, Shakespearean, Petrarchian, Mediterranean, tetrameter, nonce, etc. that the expressive possibilities are far more varied.

Look, the villanelle can, in some specific instances, produce powerful poems, but too often (and more often proportionately to the total number I read compared to other forms), they read like "chops pieces," written as an exercise--whether they were or not.

I tend not to like sestinas, either (including Auden's), but Cantor's "Tall Woman"--a sestina--pwned to no end.

Quincy

Well, David,

You've intrigued me. I confess I'd never thought of there being any possible irony in Cornford's poem - and come to think of it I can't even remember whether I read Chesterton's squib first or not. I'll also confess it is the only poem of Cornford I've ever read - but then it does seem to be the only one around.

Anyway, while I'm at it, I might as well paste in Housman's bash at it as well - again not a triolet, but a curiosity in any case:

O why do you walk through the fields in boots,
Missing so much and so much?
O fat white woman whom nobody shoots,
Why do you walk through the fields in boots,
When the grass is soft as the breast of coots
And shivering-sweet to the touch?