Hi Emitt,

Not an attack on you---I never wish to debate using ad hominem tactics-- only on the moment in the professor's article where she defends Murray against being 1) anti-gay (and I think she is right about that) and 2) a white nationalist.

She defends him against the latter by noting he is part of the "courageous never-Trump" wing of the Republican party. That's where I think she went wrong--and a reading of the articles I linked to will show why.

Be well. These are emotional issues, hard to parse.

Best, Tony

I think we agree about Murray. I just find what I see as a hypocritical outrage when violence pops out in a protest the more telling part of all this. You can obliterate bystanders with millions of dollars worth of ordinance every day, dropped from thousands of feet above, and get less ruffled feathers than if you punch a Nazi in the mouth in an "academic" setting. Kinda weird.

Emitt, you can actually speak to me instead of referring to me as if I'm not present. I notice in your posts a tendency to refer to me, "Bill is this, Bill is that, I think what Bill is doing, etc..." It's annoying and there is no need for it. Address ME when talking about me and what I write. And please, do not make assumptions about what my purpose or my point is in continually raising this issue.

All that being said, yes, I most certainly think the regressive left is having a serious and negative impact on college campuses, and has been for several decades. It is even worse now, because those who are teaching in these campuses were among the first to be indoctrinated with extreme leftist thought. So, you have a case of the blind leading the blind. It will not improve until and unless people like me continue to harp on it. And I will, despite what it makes me look like to you or anyone else.

Once again, address ME instead of mentioning me, and stop making assumptions. Where do you get the idea that I'm okay with innocent civilians being killed by American aggression? Can you please comb my posts and find any and all instances where I said glowing things about American foreign policy? Thanks in advance.

Punching nazis in the mouth is NEVER a good idea, particularly when the person you're punching is NOT a nazi. I tend to wonder if you know what a nazi is at this point. Hint: a nazi is NOT someone who has right wing opinions and whose ideas are different than yours. That's your first clue. There are plenty of sources on the Net for learning what a nazi is.

I can't stand nazis anymore than you can, but I would never go up to one (even if they were a nazi) and clobber them in the mouth. Only a senseless brute would do such a thing. "The first man to raise a fist is the man who's run out of ideas." - H.G. Wells. "A punch in the mouth can stop an argument, but it can't win one." - Moi.

Sorry for the purposeful condescension. I actually know for sure that you know what a nazi is. But your argumentation thus far is so silly that I couldn't resist.

As for what I think about my fellow Spherians: it is quite obvious that anything right of Left thinking has been gradually chased away. There are political threads from about 2009 and earlier where there was a fairly even balance of right and left, and rational centrists. Now, John Whitworth is about the only active member I can think of who is unapologetically right, and whenever he posts he is jumped on and berated for his views - though he has a thick skin and lets it slide off.

Since there is virtually no voice from the right, I will defend those views to the degree they make sense, even though I identify as a centrist, because groupthink is never a good thing, and breeds confirmation bias and levels of comfort that frankly don't belong in an intellectual space like this. I would hate to see the Sphere become the Rapture Ready of poetry sites.

resist we much

Care to elaborate?

Tony,

Thanks for all the info, and for the links on Murray. I will pursue them when I have time.

But, like I said in post #2, I didn't want this thread to be about Murray.

Nonetheless, threads will take their course, so if it turns out to be more about Murray than the violent resistance at Middlebury, so be it.

It does certainly look to me that Murray is working awfully hard to reach certain conclusions he may have had before he started. A kind of back-engineered life-long apologetic for what is apparently some unsavory thinking.

I couldn't care less about how intelligent someone is. As I mentioned in other threads, where I was once again misunderstood and misinterpreted, some of the most evil tyrants in history have been geniuses. In fact, evil requires intelligence. A cat or dog cannot be evil. Only a very highly intelligent animal can be evil.

All that being said, it's also true that humans are not born equal, and that egalitarianism is, by and large, a bad idea. While the heart is in the right place, trying to make a level playing field for kids in school, where trophies are handed out for simply participating, where there are no winners or losers, can only have disastrous results. It's very humanitarian to love and encourage a student who is not as bright as the others, and I am ALL for that, to a certain degree, BUT, it is simply WRONG to discourage students who excel by making them feel almost ashamed of being on a faster track than other students.

This should all be common sense, I would imagine, as we have seen over and over again how this kind of thing impacts young people. Children need to be prepared for a tough world, where they will be challenged, and where they will feel UNsafe, a lot of the time. If they are not prepared for that, they won't be able to compete, and they will suffer for it.

I think those were fair representations of your past posts, Bill. I don't see anything ad hom in them. And I will carry the discussion on in any way I wish, short of that ad hom business. I mentioned you in third person because I was answering Tony and calling him Bill would be weird. By titling the thread I Couldn't Resist I think even you were aware of what you were reopening.

I think protest of Murray was a more hopeful sign for that generation than silence would have been despite it veering off into violence.

I think trying move the egalitarian discussion to one of individuals when you know good and well that what is being fought here is the application of Murray-ish mindsets to collectives and race (though a phantom genetically speaking) is interesting.

My quip was about the uproar over Spencer. Nazi. Simple. Should have used his name. I thought being that you seem so intent on the pile up of injuries to right wing "educators" you would be familiar with the jab. I am agnostic about punching Nazis. Jury is still out on the tactic at this level of presence in the public sphere.

You can be as condescending as you want. It really makes little difference to me. "I know what I know, if you know what I mean."

As for your "harp" and the state of the University, I suspect people not actually involved with the students and their concerns enough to understand where they are coming from and what moment they are experiencing will largely be irrelevant to them. I don't think there is anything ad hom in saying that none of your speeches in Horowitzese here give me the impression that you can relate to these kids. They are not being fed this from professors. The rage is coming from the bottom up. Finally. Too late probably. It is just becoming. Could be a mess but I see a lot of potential. As always, it would be better if the generation that took the bribe and shut their mouths enough for us to get to the point of crisis we are in would at least have the courtesy to keep quiet and listen now. But if wishes were horses, we would all have a ride.

Bill, to say people are born equal is not to say that everyone is as smart and talented or tall or short or strong or weak as everyone else, and I'm not aware of anyone who would claim that. It's more a claim that there are things in life that everyone is equally entitled to, regardless of intelligence or how tall or strong they may be. The idea that some people are worth more and entitled to more because they have gifts that others lack is simply not tenable. It's one thing to reward certain attributes with money or fame, but it's another to pretend that those without those attributes are less worthy and therefore (for example) do not deserve medicine when they are sick or food when they are hungry.

Emitt,

Richard Spencer is an asshole, and sure, he certainly qualifies as a Nazi with a capital N. But since your post didn't indicate which "nazi" you were referring to, I assumed (wrongly) that you were talking about people with bad ideas who are actually not nazis.

Would I go up and punch Spencer in the mouth, if he were just standing there talking? Hell no! And I would expect the same answer from any rational human. Now, if he were to take a swing at me, you had better believe I'd clobber him back, and I'd hope to knock at least one tooth loose.

But since you're undecided on that, that's your thing. But, you most certainly do not have the right to assault any individual for simply saying words, no matter their content.

Let's say someone came up to me and said, "Hey Bill, you're a puny little faggot, and I think you're the scum of the earth and that you and your kind ought to be blasted off the face of the Earth."

I would get angry, sure, and I might even clamp up my femmy little fist in anticipation of an event; but I would NOT take a swing at him. I would tell him exactly what I thought of his thinking, in very descriptive, graphic sentences. I'm good at it.

Horowitzese? I give you ten bonus points for that. I've read one book he published in 1998, and it remains one of the most brilliant books I've ever read. I haven't read any of his other books, and what I know of him currently is derived from a few interviews and articles. I'm not deep into David Horowitz. I am deep into Spinoza. You got a problem with him? Fire away. And best of luck with that.

Can I relate to kids of college age? My eldest son is IN college. And my youngest will be graduating high school in two years. You can bet your ass I can relate to kids of this age, as I'm a good father and my boys love me to death. I can link you to their pages on Facebook if you need verification on that.

You are the current king of assumption-making at the Sphere.

Roger,

I know the difference between "born equal" and "equal opportunity". Can you point out something, somewhere in my long posts here and on other threads that gave you the impression that I was ignorant of that distinction? Thanks in advance.

You wrote:I'm astonished that you wrote that. Who the hell is suggesting that children who are not as intelligent as others are therefore NOT deserving of medicine or food? Can you please explain how you went from coddling children in the classroom to neglect and outright abuse???

This is a perfect example of, I am sorry to say this, dishonesty, and patently irrational argumentation.

"Bill doesn't like the trend toward egalitarianism in schools, therefore he might also be in favor of letting less intelligent kids die for lack of healthcare or starve for lack of food..."

Now, you didn't actually say that, Roger, but for lazy readers, and for those who aren't as sharp as others, that is the implication in your words.

And that is how and why we have mass confusion and constant conflict on social media and all over the Net, and in the world.

For rational comic relief:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hkhUivqzWv0 - George Carlin

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ipwMa5uT5es - Bill Maher and Dennis Miller (2014)

It ain't just me with my panties in a twist. It's all over, and people are getting more and more tired of it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=En_VzgtI64U - Dennis Miller on Robert De Niro