Perhaps others, like me, submitted nothing for a number of reasons (in my case, the primary one being to give others the chance to profit from Rhina's critique, as many of us already have; no small boon!).

I didn't submit either, but not for any altruistic reason, I simply didn't think I had anything good enough. The fact that I was co-opted, as it were, as a makeweight in the comic relief section, does not diminish either my delight at being critiqued by Rhina or my appreciation of the work contributed by Tim, Carol and Sharon.

Jim

--From the description on the Poet Lariat Board


--Carol Taylor, posted above. Emphasis added to indicate quoted remark in my original post.


--From Jim Hayes post above in this thread

Given that not a single poem posted on the free verse board from the entirety of 2004 was chosen--either because it was not submitted or, as Mr Hayes said above "co-opted"--as part of "some of our best poems from the 2004 crop," I find what that implies "interesting." But I leave it to everyone else to draw their own conclusions.

I would appreciate, however, Mr Hayes, if you would engage in this discussion without stooping to such insults as "soreheads."

There is much to be learned from discovering why people DON'T participate in activities such as this as why they do.

Jeez, Tom, the one time something of mine gets picked for something, do you have to make me feel guilty about it?

When the judges of what's "fine" are Tim Murphy and Rhina Espaillat, it's a safe bet that metrical work will receive more attention than non-metrical. So? Have you seen Best American Poetry 2004? Should we all write protest letters to Lyn Hejinian demanding equal space for metrical poetry, or should we just chalk it up to her personal taste?

It might be interesting to use this thread to nominate work by others that we think belongs in the best of 2004. Maybe the person submitted a different poem, or was too modest to submit anything, or couldn't submit something because it was being considered for publication, or whatever.

Tom, your Vermeer lacemaker poem was workshopped here in 2004, wasn't it? That would be one of my picks. Sorry it's metrical.

I can't remember if Wendy v's "North of Mist" was from 2003 or 2004. Either way, she's probably sick of hearing me rave about it. It's such a memorable poem.

For Maz, I'd choose either the pie poem or the bee poem.

Williamb's poem--was that that wonderful villanelle (usually that's an oxymoron in my book)?

Bugsy's Coy Mistress parody was one of my favorites, along with that bizarre poem about wigglin'.

I don't visit Non-Met as often, but when I do, eaf usually has something good there. Was his polar bear poem posted this year, or is that an older one? His one about the wife and the storm was also really good.

Add to this list, anyone?

I post in both metrical and non-metrical sections and I must confess I don't see as many polished poems in non-met. I won't ask: 'Why is that?' , but I would have expected metrical poems to predominate here, as they have. The extent of the domination is food for thought, though. I wonder how many free verse poems were submitted (though I realise that may be restricted info.)

Regards, Maz

Rose:

When someone states that something represents "some of the best of" and then exclude an entire category without explanation, that raises troubling issues for me. If this had been called "The Cream of the Metrical/Formal Crop" or, more accurately, "Highlights from The Deep End in 2004," then at least there would be truth in advertising. I find it hard to believe that not a single poem posted on the FV board in the entire year is included. Not one. I find this particularly galling when I learn that not every poem selected was even submitted for consideration in the first place.

If you want to write to the publishers of The Best American Poetry series, I would encourage you to do so. Or do what I do and vote with your wallet--don't buy it.

I'm sorry if you feel "guilty"--it was certainly not my intention to disparage what IS there. I simply wanted to raise some concerns about what has been so obviously excluded. I stopped writing poetry altogether, and this example of the poetry world in action just reinforces my own particular feeling that I have made the right choice for me.


Tom

[This message has been edited by nyctom (edited November 29, 2004).]

Tom,
Excuse me being blunt, but stuff the poetry-world (whatever that may be). I don't even know why I started writing poems, but I'm certain the poetry-world wouldn't stop me. I get such pleasure when the words come together, when I've feel I've made something. The fact that other people sometimes enjoy what I've written is a bonus - it's mainly the creative process itself that keeps me addicted. I love words - I feel so lucky to have the whole of the English language open to me.
It seems so sad to me that you can give up poetry writing. Don't you even write for yourself now?
Regards, Maz

Thank you, Maz.

So the news is that not everyone wants to write poems, or to write them for years and years? We all do what we want to do, as the saying goes. No one can force, cajole, encourage, or tempt anyone to create. It has to come from oneself; surely we all know that?

BUT there's some information missing here: were any good f.v. poems submitted, or not?

When I hear that a poem that wasn't even submitted was included I think that renders the whole idea of "submission" rather uhm hazy.

And if a majority of people who write free verse DON'T submit their work, don't you think it might be at least beneficial to some extent to ask why? Why don't they?

Maz, I am only speaking for myself. I am glad for you that you get pleasure from the act of writing. Good for you.

Tom

Good grief Tom. It's possible nobody sent any FV poems or not enough of those that should have been sent.

One does write for an audience I think and that audience can be one other sympathetic person.

I wish you would write again but I know that certain periods of one's life lead in other directions.

I think giving up writing because of the "poetry world" is like giving up loving because of war.

Come back Tom when the muse strikes, I like to read you.

Janet

PS,
Some of this energy (everybody here) might be better employed under the poems Rhina has commented on. (awful sentence.)

[This message has been edited by Janet Kenny (edited November 29, 2004).]