Marybeth, I also suggested that we allow for "guest" sign-ins. For example, anyone who is not a member could simply log in with the username "guest" and the password "password," and they would be able to read the entire site (although not post). So it would be easy for people to check us out before deciding to register.

The home page could say who and what we are, invite people to check us out as a guest, etc.

I hardly think it's elitist not to publish our unpublished work to the world until we are ready to do so, and on our own terms, any more than I think it's elitist to close my blinds to keep passers-by on the street from looking in the window. If people want to see me, let them ring my bell.

I just posted this in the other thread, but I think it goes here too (Maryann -- maybe the two threads should be merged, or one closed and referred to the other, since they really seem to get at the same issues):

I agree with Bob's idea of a guest login. Add that to the tags, the members only workshops, and the frequent pruning. I just googled a poem that was cut in the lat pruning -- it was right on top with the first line or two visible in the google summary and a link to the cached page with the whole poem. If Wiley is right that mags are rejecting based on this, I am very deterred from posting anymore.

David R.

Meanwhile, Maryann, I vote for deleting the deck the hall threads. Or at least the posts containing the poems in full. As Steve C pointed out in the other thread, the tags aren't working there anymore.

David R.

This seems to be a huge fuss over a problem with an apparently simple solution, which was mentioned in Roger's first post on this thread. I can google myself on the Sphere, but not on the Gaz. Find out whatever it is the Gaz does for privacy protection, and emulate it here.

I also think that members have to get over this intense concern about having your threads read by somebody who is not also a member. If you elect to post on a public forum - no matter how private it tries to be - you're on a public forum. The internet is imperfect. Stuff will be seen. If you're that worried about it, possibly you shouldn't be posting.

David, to respond in part to your comment about deleting the "deck the halls" threads:

I see that we've got a new situation now. We tried this year to deal with the issue of hiding the poems so as to let people give us unpublished work, and our hoped-for solution failed us.

But I don't think the goal for the future should be to take poems down after these contests. We might have to rethink what's eligible for a contest; it might have to be "previously published only." We want the Distinguished Guest board to be a record that stands, I think.

Golias - permit me a question. Can you share with us which print journals it was that would not accept your work because it had appeared here? As far as I know, only Poetry takes this approach, and they don't inform people that they googled and found something on the net - they just spit out the usual rejection slip. If there are others with this approach, I would appreciate some advance warning.

Is it possible that you forced the issue by going out of your way in the submission to indicate that the poem had been posted on the net? And that possibly you were not clear as to whether the poem was in a workshop with a short life span, or posted for general reading in a journal? It just sounds strange that you seem to be the only one who had this experience, so I'm curious as to the background.

Michael, that sort of begs the question. Yes, it is a "public forum," of course, but there are indeed steps that can be taken to alter the level of privacy we enjoy here. The question is whether we should take those steps. I don't see how "get over it" is an argument one way or the other when there are actual choices to be made.

I don't think you believe it either. Otherwise, why would you suggest that we emulate the Gazebo codes? Why not just say "Get over it" and suck it up that Google is indexing our work?

It's a question of how many steps we are willing to take. You are willing to use protective codes, but not to require non-members to sign in as a guest. It's a fair enough disagreement, but I simply can't "get over" my issues. They impact me directly and the current situation is keeping me from being able to workshop lots of my work here.

Lots of public functions are restricted for privacy purposes. I believe that AA meetings are open to the public, but that doesn't mean they want non-alcoholics dropping in to "lurk" or that they want the transcripts of the meetings posted online.

PS--
I'd also add that the fact that you may not be bothered by the additional visibility doesn't mean that there's any reason for you to oppose taking measures to address the concerns of those of us who are bothered. I don't see how it hurts you to humor the rest of us. Why not just be a sport and indulge the privacy freaks? What's it to you?

Folks, I appreciate all your suggestions about evading spiders, the possibility of having a closed site, and the many other ways of getting at the issue of privacy versus the benefits of workshopping. HOWEVER:

My original question was about more frequent pruning. That's the one thing I have the power to do, IF Alex approves of the idea.

I suggest that the solution to this morning's overlapping threads is to post on this one ONLY if you're arguing for or against more frequent pruning. If you want to talk about a different aspect of the problem, Wiley's thread is probably the place to post.

For the record, it doesn't seem to be within my power to hide forums, but I'm still looking.

Well, I did ask before the competition whether the tags would be in place, and during the competition, I checked and they were working. Now they are either gone or not working. Can we do something about this? Re-tag those threads? Block them to non-members? Especially if they are going to be up there in perpetuity. I am starting to now I hadn't entered.

Interestingly, I just googled my Bake-off entry and it didn't pop up, so how archived is archived?

David R.

Moved from another thread per Janice's suggestion to keep it all on one thread
It's especially puzzling to me to find that Golias has had poems apparently googled and rejected since he is one of the few here who posts under an assumed name. The use of an alias should make it much harder for a publication who was interested enough or had enough spare time on their hands to do seach and discard research each and every submitted poem.

As far as I know "Poetry" is one of the few which does not accept previously workshopped poems - and they state so explicitly on their submission page. I would think that if one wanted to submit a poem to them that they would be aware of their distaste for workshopping and either not workshop the poem ahead of time or just not submit it.

But that's just me.

And I'm cranky today.


Personally, I'm pretty surprised to find that so many people here seem to find the set-up here to be a problem.

Tim has had poems which he's workshopped here published by Poetry, hasn't he?