bloody good 9/11 poem btw.

also, just wanted to mention all the many thousands of people who came
out onto the streets and cleared the place up. i rather doubt it had
the same coverage abroad. strange things happen in England
after riots. it seems to clear the air. oddly though, despite what they might say
on TV it wasn't really a riot. it was something new. David Starkey said it was
mostly shopping with violence, which is pretty close. Steaming is not new
(where multiple people shop-lift at the same Time)
a mass steaming (aided by the distraction of arson) seems to be about right.

anyone looking to that quote from Martin LK is really looking in the wrong direction though.


DC

The broom brigade was the front page photo in The New York Times on Wednesday or Thursday.

Hi Charlotte

I actually agree with that article in the link you provided that "America Is a Spark Away From Riots of Its Own". There was an editorial in the Washington Post this past week that made a parallel between the disturbances of the Arab Spring and those in Britain and contrasted the relative restraint of the British police to what is happening in Syria, for example. But it struck me that they should have been looking closer to home and perhaps to recognize that the same could happen here with the same elements, bad economy, political turmoil, government cutting back on services. Could the new American "austerity" lead to similar scenes here? :confused:

All the best

Chris

i'm glad to hear that about the New York Times. there was
a hilarious fly-by on the news last night about how it was
joyfully reported in the middle east, and Greece. A Chinese
govt. spokeman also comparing it to the Arab spring (..?)

I'm not sure its about austerity. seems more like frustration
at not having a bigger share of the pie. also, it doesn't seem
to be about race. Lots of young gainfully employed people
getting arrested for theft, lots of children also.
Could it happen in the US ?

Hi everyone, I'm excited that so much thoughtful comment, as well as poetry, has emerged from this debate! Thanks to all.

Just to add to the news and poetry element, I've put a couple more links below:

(1) A link to yesterday's Guardian, which had a poem by Carol Ann Duffy responding to the death of a boy who was killed in that horrendous hit-and-run accident during the riots. It's not such a great poem, but she was at least trying! A very in-the-moment sort of thing.

(2) The general link to The Guardian--overflowing with news still.

Also, I should add to conny and Rick's comments that "the broom brigade," the volunteer clean-up team, was also featured in the Los Angeles Times, way over here on the West Coast! I'm so glad to get the coverage.

Thanks, Alex for poems. I agree, James Fenton is the best when it comes to the poetry of war and violence. (His "Selected" says it all.)

Gregory, thanks so much for the transcript. Ah yes, teenagers... I teach them, so I know that their ability to express themselves can be problematic... Also there's the whole issue of "copy cat" violence... the quality of contemporary education... I won't even go there! Except to say to conny that this might be a partial response to her comment about the "gainfully employed" and children being involved...

I was glad to be reminded of Waugh and the Bollinger/Bullingdon Club (thanks George, Gregory, Paul). And, wow, I didn't know about PM David Cameron's student rampage! So interesting.

And Duncan and ChrisGeorge--thanks for the thoughtful political comments. I'm with you on peaceful non-violence. I also know that underlying conditions spark riots--as happened here in LA after the Rodney King verdict--the riots I mentioned above. When it happened, I was working part-time for the ACLU, where the phones were ringing off the hook. Rodney K. wasn't the only person beaten up by the police, as it turned out. Hundreds and hundreds of people (mostly poor, black, Latino) told their stories--but said they didn't complain about being beaten because they assumed nothing would come of it, since the police were involved... Subsequently, we had the Christopher Commission, the retraining of the LAPD and more... And that's just one aspect of it all!

So Chris, in answer to your question... riots have happened here--and might again! I hope not, though.

Now the links:

Poem by Carol Ann Duffy

http://http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/aug/12/birmingham-tariq-jahan-poem-duffy

The Guardian: lots of stories and comment

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk

i agree about the poem in the Guardian.

also, on the Guardian website just below the poem, was an
advert for the latest Nike id trainers. They retail for $130.


DC

It's not a good poem, which is a pity. Poor Carol Ann seems to be struggling under the weight of the laureateship, like Andrew Motion before her. She obviously feels the duty to come up with something on the riots, and can only manage a bit of mournful head-shaking, like a liberal headmaster telling the school assembly how sad he is about the behaviour of the year ten boys.
In the eighties, she was much better. Responding to the disaffected youth of the time, she wrote dramatic monologues for a compulsive thief ('The most unusual thing I ever stole? A snowman.') and a young man bent on destruction ('Today I am going to kill something. Anything.') The latter is such a good poem that a group of ladies were so disturbed by it that they persuaded an exam board to remove it from the GCSE syllabus.
But maybe CAD manage to get into non-laureate mode and come up with something better than this.

Hi Charlotte

I like the Carol Ann Duffy poem so thanks for sharing it with us. Not a great poem, as you say, but moving nonetheless. It perhaps helps to have seen the father, Tariq Jahan, talking on TV and to have seen his humility and heard his call for calm in the aftermath of his son's death.

Chris

Are you kidding? Look at the flash mobs in Philadelphia!

The poem I want to cite as relevant is Timothy winters, by Charles Causley. It isn't the whole picture or anything like, but it's in there.

Timothy Winters

Timothy Winters comes to school
With eyes as wide as a football-pool,
Ears like bombs and teeth like splinters:
A blitz of a boy is Timothy Winters.

His belly is white, his neck is dark,
And his hair is an exclamation-mark.
His clothes are enough to scare a crow
And through his britches the blue winds blow.

When teacher talks he won't hear a word
And he shoots down dead the arithmetic-bird,
He licks the pattern off his plate
And he's not even heard of the Welfare State.

Timothy Winters has bloody feet
And he lives in a house on Suez Street,
He sleeps in a sack on the kithen floor
And they say there aren't boys like him anymore.

Old Man Winters likes his beer
And his missus ran off with a bombardier,
Grandma sits in the grate with a gin
And Timothy's dosed with an aspirin.

The welfare worker lies awake
But the law's as tricky as a ten-foot snake,
So Timothy Winters drinks his cup
And slowly goes on growing up.

At Morning Prayers the Master helves
for children less fortunate than ourselves,
And the loudest response in the room is when
Timothy Winters roars 'Amen!'

So come one angel, come on ten
Timothy Winters says 'Amen
Amen amen amen amen'.
Timothy Winters, Lord. Amen.

Always relevant....
 

Rory: Thanks so much for posting the poem by Charles Causley (I love him!)... And yes, there will always be riots... And yes, the poor will always be with us, I suspect... And yes, the two are connected, I'm afraid...

Chris, conny, and George: thanks for all the constructive comments! The juxtaposition of the Nike ads is certainly ironic. Thanks, conny. I also suspect that some sneaker manufacturers get a bit of unintended advertising during the filming of street protests and such...