I'm always struck by how amazingly visual is the word "tissue" in that poem, and have attributed it to the odd break in the word and that o so lovely capitalized S. Have always wondered how on earth he knew this would be so effective.

Eaf, "Writing Poems" is a terrific resource. Was the first handbook I ever bought, and remains one of my favorites.

Tim, we're so fortunate to have you, your poems, your stories, and your influence here, I sometimes have to pinch myself.

Congrats to those whose poems were selected for review by RPW. Wonderful choices, Tim, and I'm sure the selection was difficult, but I groan that no women 'sphere poets were selected. I don't speak for myself, but surely Susan McClean, Terese Coe, ALICIA...ah, well. I hope next time such an opportunity arises, the women here are represented.

I also hope Tom's (hi Tom !!!) questions re: revision are answered, and I would follow up by asking Mr Wilbur if he's published poems which simply spilled forth as gifts that required no reworking at all.

It would also be interesting to discover what poems of his Mr. Wilbur is most attached to, and which he's most contemptuous of.

I've never quite grasped the Plath inspired poem in "Mayflies," and any discussion of it would be wonderful.

I'm hoping Mr. Wilbur will discuss how his poetry (ie, the writing process) has confirmed and/or widened his spiritual path, and although I risk hearty sneers and jeers, whether he's read any Rumi and if he has,
what he makes of Rumi's general view re: the spiritual and the poetic.

Please thank him for the many hours of pleasure, wisdom, and company he's provided this humble reader.

Wendy, Alicia and Rhina and Deborah were all ruled out because Dick knows their work. Choosing between a Coe and a Slater or a McLean translation was very difficult. Believe it or not, though I'd noticed the nationalities of the lucky ones, it didn't even occur to me that they were all male. Duh! In defense of this board let me point out the three winners of the Great Sonnet Bake-Off were all women, and there were shrieks of outrage from certain of the gentlemen. Finally, what poem in Mayflies is Plath-inspired?

Sorry, Tim, I misspoke, it's Cottage Street and I'm sure it's in the New and Collected. Is there documentation out there of how Wilbur actually felt (feels) about Plath's work ? I see the poem as one of profound compassion, frustration, and one which affirms the depths and the limits of one's own faith. One simply cannot gift Hope to one whose religion is Despair. On the issue of Plath's poetry, though, (and its ability to endure), there does seem to be some ambiguity.

On the other issue, because of the aformentioned shrieks, I'll forgive you neglecting your femme side, this time.
http://www.ablemuse.com/erato/ubbhtml/rolleyes.gif

wendy



[This message has been edited by wendy v (edited January 28, 2003).]

I thought it was Cottage Street. Alan has challenged Dick's public statements on this and discusses his exchange with him in Islands of Order, his big Wilbur essay at www.crucat.com. We are both of the view that though the poem is deeply compassionate, it is also deeply critical.

The first Wilbur poem I read was “The Gambler” (New Yorker about 1982-83). I was captivated to find such urbane and fluent language in a metrical piece. I have been a fan ever since. Congratulations and thanks, Tim, for bringing this aging master to us.

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Bill

Tim, WOW! This is an amazing gift! Thank you so much! I would ask this--

Mr. Wilbur, I was recently caught up in a discussion about what makes a poem a poem. One person in the group believed that anything metrical/verse was a poem ( with a qualifier, that the intent to write a poem was there) Another person argued that it is a compression of language the craft of the line, etc. They gave an example of nonsense verse they had written, they maintained that although it was regular in meter, it could not be called a poem. Both cited the numerous examples of both techniques used to produce the plethora of bad poetry often seen on the internet and elsewhere.
Both sides shared the view that a poem and poetry are the same.
I thought both views are right in the sense that either way one can produce a poem, but I believe most poems are not poetry. As if a poem is the cause of the writer and poetry is the effect upon the individual reader. What is your definition of a poem and/or poetry?

Respectfully,
Donna

Thought I had absorbed that essay of Alan's,
but obviously I had forgotten that he had something
to say about "Cottage Street," so I'll go back
and re-read it as soon as I'm done here.

At a birthday fest/reading
at Bard College two years ago, a fine critic (whose
name, I blush to admit, I have forgotten) strongly defended
Wilbur's choice of "unjust" as he sat there and beamed
on genially at the proceedings. I got the strong
impression that he approved of what she (the critic)
was saying. I.e., the poem was deeply sympathetic
and yet ultimately rueful and tender about having to
call the poems unjust. This is a view I am sure is
strongly influenced by Wilbur's religious faith.

Bill: Are you thinking of the "Gambler" that came out
a couple of years ago in the "New Yorker" (I could swear
I read it in 1998 or 1999) and was included in "Mayflies"?
Of course, it could just be a senior moment for yours truly.

To fulfill a request, a bit of doggerel re what used to be called, no doubt rather superficially, a "gender gap":

Love-All

Though it may seem quite appalling
When the numbers come up short,
It is not a case of stalling
But conditioning the court.

For it isn't "us" and "them,"
And it isn't black and white;
It is turn and turn again
Till we all can get it right.

If the waters form an eddy
Round the words of OUR Tim,
He's big-hearted as he's ready—
Honors her and honors him.

Terese



[This message has been edited by Terese Coe (edited January 30, 2003).]

Almost forgot—my questions for Richard Wilbur:

During the early productions of your timeless, superb Moliere and Racine translations, were you present during the rehearsals? If so, did you often revise lines as a result of hearing actors speak them? What was it like to experience those rehearsals and/or the opening nights?

Terese

Len: I'm pretty certain within that date-range because of other things that were going on in my life at the same time. Perhaps the '98-'99 was a reprint. It was included in "Mayflies", which purported to begin at a later date than I recall (1984 I think). However, I too am given to the occasional senior moment - quite prematurely I hasten to add.

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Bill