I live in Berkeley. I often find I am quite happily provincial here inside the dome.

David R.

Finally, Lo, someone gets one of my jokes. I didn't know about the airplane hunting issue. I'm not worried about the brown bears. They're just everywhere in SE Alaska, and it wouldn't hurt for there to be a strictly controlled harvest to put the fear of man into those big fellows. For the record, I have a lot of backcountry experience in Bearville. I respect and fear bruins, and I think they are delicious. In North Dakota, no motorized vehicle can be employed in the pursuit of game. One can only drive off road to set decoys. Big game must be carried out, that's right, carried. I fully support my state's restrictions.

I am impressed by the speech, which my left-wing soul sister, Camille Paglia, called the best speech by a woman politician of my lifetime. Well, Camille, cara mia, have you forgotten Margaret Thatcher? There is a significant chance here, colleagues, that we are discussing the first woman president of the United States.

David, I interpret this

quote:
-----------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Daniel Haar:
I can promise you I will defer to the collective decision of the nation and accept whichever ticket wins as the new president and vice-president.
-----------------------------------------------------------

as implying that voters accept election results and accept a peaceful shifting of the power until the next election. That doesn't mean loving the new leader or not working as opposition. It has nothing to do (in my wee mind anyway) with kow-towing).

This is not to put words in Daniel's mouth, but to clarify my own standpoint expressed earlier.

Janice,

I get what you are saying, I actually did understand Dan's comment that way at first. I just think a better word than "defer" could have been used. But, I am probably just overreacting.

David R.

Is that another joke, Tim? Paglia strikes me as left-wing in the same way a professional wrestler is a wrestler.

In any case, she has often made idiotic pronouncements for sensational effect, and I think this is one of them.

David R.

Paglia is an academic, and in the cosmology of the Right, all academics are left-wing. Ergo, Paglia is a Leftist.

Didn't you get the memo?

Kevin

We get so many such memos here in Berkeley, I lose track. I thought the same was true in SJ. Kevin, have you been outside the dome?!?!

David R.

PS -- Paglia strikes me as about as academic as she is left-wing.

Don't tell Mark.

n/m

[This message has been edited by Dan Halberstein (edited August 31, 2008).]

If we are to defer to the judgment of those who know her best, consider her own mother in law, who says she might vote for Obama.

Palin's mother-in-law uncertain about how she'll vote

And consider the comments of two major Alaskan newspapers that do not feel Palin is qualified for the job of VP or P.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/greg-m..._b_122625.html

The same article quotes the REPUBLICAN PRESIDENT OF THE ALASKA STATE SENATE as saying:

"She's not prepared to be governor. How can she be prepared to be vice president or president? Look at what she's done to this state. What would she do to the nation?"

And the REPUBLICAN SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE, when asked if Palin is qualified to be president, replied only: "She's old enough. She's a U.S. citizen."

[edited by MC to shorten URL.]

No, Lo, I wasn't side-stepping. I adore Kennedy. And many other Christian and or Catholic presidents who were not all about cramming their faith down everyone's throat.

In general, I don't trust dogmatic religious people - which was my point. Now, I don't have time to discuss this with you all day, so my answer will have to suffice for now.

Anne

Originally posted by Tim Murphy:

How many of you...have been to The Great Land, have seen the Alaska Pipeline, have hiked in brown bear country?

I have.

Bob

Yep, me too. Panned for gold, ate salmon, hiked the slopes of Denali, watched glaciers calving, all the good stuff.

Which makes me concerned about Palin wanting to drill all of it. There are pumpjacks in downtown Los Angeles and they look grotty and industrial enough there. I don't want them in the middle of a national wildlife refuge.

Originally posted by Tim Murphy:

I'm not worried about the brown bears.

I am. They're easier to shoot than buffalo.

They're just everywhere in SE Alaska

I know Alaska's a great land mass, but so is the land where the buffalo roamed.

...and it wouldn't hurt for there to be a strictly controlled harvest...

Harvest?

And what would the program be named, Clear Meadows?

...to put the fear of man into those big fellows.

The next time I'm fishing in Katmai, the last thing I want to stumble upon is a fearful bear.

Shameless

So I don't get my head bitten off I'll start with the following disclaimer:


The following statements were overheard and repeated for discussion's sake and do not necessarily represent the viewpoint of the reporter.

*grin*

Listening to our staunch conservatives in the area, I've heard more than a few comment they might prefer if McCain retire should the McCain/Palin ticket get elected.

Nothing was said about the brown bear or the buffalo.

I am deeply disturbed by the gun lobby, the hunting lobby,
and those who hunt and kill animals for sport. It is disgusting to me. These people are not pro-life.

This is Pro Life? Airial Hunting Video

Sure they are - they just get to pick which life is important. What they don't seem to get is that, like the buffalo, if you kill it all off - eventually you condemn your own children to death as well.

Personally, I think you should only kill an animal:

a) as part of a larger program to regulate a biome
b) for food (common sense should dictate what is and is not fair game)
c) in self-defence (which does not include shooting brown bears or anything else on sight)

Oh, and I wanted to say that the weird site I linked to is not an indication that I believe in UFOs or frequent such web sites. But I had done a search about Sarah Palin and Ariel hunting out of curiosity to see what is involved in this practice.

Do y'all think these folks are eating all those wolves and buffaloes and such that they are killing in such a manner? I don't know what they do with them. I don't oppose hunting for food. But for sport, it just seems like gratuitous violence.

I used to think that "a" was wrong - until they made deer protected near the Indiana Dunes area back home. Within a few years the deer were small, sickly and pathetic. There just wasn't enough food for all of them to exist anymore. The Game Commission in Indiana now holds a regularly scheduled and tightly controlled shoot each year for a very short period with very strict rules about who can shoot what and the number is minimal - just enough, in other words.

So, as much as it pains me to agree with it, I've learned to.

Be that as it may, killing anything from the air seems like the worst sort of arrogance.

It's not sport, it's slaughter.

While an avid target shooter, I've never been a hunter. Unless the animal has an equal chance to bag the hunter, I can't see it being called 'sport'.

By the same token, if someone's operating within the legal boundaries, and they consume the carcass, I don't object to anyone else hunting, either. We are omnivores and the vast majority of us do not refrain from eating meat on morality grounds. Those who do have earned protest rights. Everyone else sounds hypocritical, to me.

I do like baiting people, however. One conversation with a co-worker went along these lines:

"Hey Brian, why do you like killing things?"

I don't enjoy killing things, I just like being in the outdoors

"Surely you can be in the outdoors without hunting. Admit it: you just like killing things."

No I don't. I enjoy the chase and pitting myself against the instinct and reactions of the animal.

"You can still do that, and take a photograph as your 'trophy'. C'mon, Brian, don't be ashamed. You can admit you enjoy killing."

*Brian's turning a mite flushed at this point, but doggedly continues...*

But I eat what I kill, and I save money by not not having to buy as much meat at the store

"Wait a minute, Brian, weren't you just bragging a minute ago about how many $1000 + guns you have? That's a lot of meat. No, Brian, accept it. You enjoy killing."

I'm not sure if he ran out of arguments or finally realized I was messing with him. We laughed about it later, but I still (occasionally) refer to him as "Bwana".

*grin*


[This message has been edited by Jerry Glenn Hartwig (edited September 01, 2008).]

http://news.aol.com/elections/conven...737x1200476316

Well, that destroys the "grandma" rumor, doesn't it?

Poor Bristol.

My personal view is that shooting anything that is endangered, might be endangered, or has been endangered in the past is a bad idea. But if it has to be done for public safety, should be done by a licensed professional working for the state.

For example, in California, mountain lions have made a comeback. So much so that they've occasionally wandered out of the mountains into suburbia. When they do, if animal control and the parks department can't deal with them, it's only right and proper that the police shoot them. But I don't want hunters and other amateur gunbunnies running around in the hills shooting them and anything else they may think looks like a mountain lion.

My view with wolves and polar bears is much the same. And shooting wolves so there are more moose and elk for humans to hunt is simple selfishness. Regular bears? It really depends, but hanging out at the edge of a nature preserve to snipe any who wander across is unsportsmanlike to the level of creepy so I'd say no to that too.

Do people even eat wolf meat? I know they eat moose and bear and deer but wolf? Seems much like eating dog to me.

There's a big ole stuffed bear in Sarah Palin's office, I know that much. No one ate that one, that's for sure. It's a trophy bear all the way.


http://www.grizzlybay.org/PalinBear.jpg

[This message has been edited by Laura Heidy-Halberstein (edited September 01, 2008).]

Kevin, the mountain lions haven't invaded suburban backyards;sububurbia has invaded the mountain lion's backyard, the same way that oil pipelines do in the northern wilderness refuges of wolves, brown bears, caribou, and many other species. Migration routes and breeding and hunting territories are lost or changed. The animals pay the price. It's a lose lose situation.

I agree though that there is often nothing else to be done besides killing the animal when it endangers the public. We are running out of places to relocate them.

Donna

Ugh..I am getting unhealthily wrapped up in the madness, despite promising to drop our of public life in 2004. I retract and detract this and future weigh-ins on my part.

Gimme a beer.

RM

[This message has been edited by Rick Mullin (edited September 01, 2008).]

What's your point? If you've never tasted dog you may not know what you're missing. Cat, now, is a different story. Stringy and musky...

As for Palin's up and coming grandchild, well at least now the liberal gossips will have something accurate to gossip about.

Good for Obama: he stated Bristol's pregnancy is a family matter, not for political discussion, as it has nothing to do with Sarah's lack of qualifications to be a governor or VP.

cheTONGUEek...



[This message has been edited by Jerry Glenn Hartwig (edited September 01, 2008).]

My kitties and I don't even want to think about it.

Isn't it illegal to eat dog in The United States?

Or is that an urban myth?

edited to add: Never mind, I looked it up. It's considered socially taboo in The States but it's not illegal at all. They DO occasionally eat dog in Alaska, but it's uncommon. Some dude regularily killed, cooked and ate his sled dogs when they became too tired or run down to pull his sled any longer. Seems like a poor way of paying them back, but I suppose it's not wasteful.


Virtually no one eats wolf. Not in any country. People will resort to it when they're starving but they say it doesn't do much for a person. No nutrients or something.
It has been reported to taste like chicken, but that's what people say about iguana, too.

And just as an aside, when they aerially hunt wolves, they don't shoot them from the air - they chase them with low flying planes until they pass out from exhaustion and then they land the plane and walk up to them and kill them where they lay.

Nice, huh?

That's even less sporting than trying to hit them with a bullet from a moving vehicle.




[This message has been edited by Laura Heidy-Halberstein (edited September 01, 2008).]

Laura, I don't know. It's illegal to treat an animal cruelly, but not not humanely putting them down. If they were put down humanely could they be legally consumed? Have to research it.

Cats are not domestic animals, as are cows and dogs, but they don't have a hunting season as do deer, etc. so it's the same question from a deifferent angle.

I'll see if I can find out.

A quick search of certain legal sources has not yielded any specific laws against consuming dogs or 'companion animals'.

The best I can find currently in the Ohio Revised Code staes:

(B) No person shall knowingly torture, torment, needlessly mutilate or maim, cruelly beat, poison, needlessly kill, or commit an act of cruelty against a companion animal.


The key word would be 'needlessly'. If one were starving in the woods with no hope of immediate rescue is different than just wanting to see what Fido tastes like.

Every other reference refers to companion animal consumption merely as a social taboo in the US, although there are laws about selling them as food products.

If I find something more specific, I'll post it.

That sounds a lot like the Employee Motivation Program at my workplace.

Yep, I have a grim feeling I'm for the cooking pot.

Lo

Appears to be legal in Oz. I've been reading about an author who had a cookbook out with at least one recipe for feral cats.

No U.S. laws yet. Each state may have their own laws or lack thereof...

What's up with the Black Dress?

Seems like rather untraditonal garb (wearing a black dress) while making your VP announcement. Maybe its an Alaskan thing. Or perhaps I'm nit-picking.

You're nit-picking.

Why NOT a black dress? It's not like she's got a tradition she's breaking or anything.



[This message has been edited by Laura Heidy-Halberstein (edited September 01, 2008).]

Well, since nit-picking is a long established tradition around here, I'd like to nit-pick just a bit more. I was very curious about the odd names of Sarah Palin's children:
Track, Willow, Piper, Trig and Bristol - so I began to search and found that others were also curious and discussing the implications. Andrew Sullivan of the Daily Dish - touches on this at

The Atlantic.Com

Thanks to McCain for bringing us such a mysterious selection to study. And gosh it was good of him to cancel the first day of the Republican Convention due to his concern for those in the path of the hurricane. I'm sure they all feel a little safer because of it.

Oh, here's more about the family names


I'm attempting to answer your original question, "Who the heck is Sarah Palin".



[This message has been edited by Anne Bryant-Hamon (edited September 01, 2008).]

You're right, Anne, my original question was "Who the heck is Sarah Palin" not "Who the heck are Sarah Palin's children and why do they have funny names?" or "Did you hear that people are saying Trig is her grandson not her son?" And before anyone gets down and dirty about it here, I'll say right now that I'm already damn sick and tired of hearing about her daughter's unfortunately timed pregnancy even tho it laid to rest the grandchild theory of relativity.

My children are not me - I am not my children. What my children do, once they reach a certain age, is beyond my control. What I can control is my own reaction to whatever it is they have done.

So far it appears to me, and I am no fan of Sarah Palin, that she's reacting much to her daughter's situation as I would hope I would - with faith and love and support. And she's continuing to hold her head high and to allow her daughter to do the same.

I'm really not all that concerned with her family experiences. What I am concerned with is her political experiences. Her reaction or her solution to her daughter's pregnancy has absolutally nothing to do with my life nor will it affect my life. Her reactions and her solutions to a terrorist threat or a tax decision or drilling oil fields in the middle of previously protected land - now that just might matter to me - and matter muchly.

Actually, the more people discuss her personal life, the less chance we have of ever getting to the real stuff - the stuff that actually matters, the stuff that makes a difference.

If all the media reports on is her pregnancy or her daughter's pregnancy or why she named her children what she did, that means they are not reporting on her political stances or her stances on anything even remotely like vice-presidential concerns.

If everyone continues to obsess on one particular teenaged pregnancy then no one is obsessing on foreign policy or Troopergate or anything else which really MIGHT make a difference to the American people.

Whether her daughter gets married or not, what she named her children, all that rates right up, there with what color dress she wore the day she made her VP announcement - which is to say, not at all.

Her personal agendas are not important, her political agendas are. All this talk of teenaged pregnancy and first names are distracting. I'm starting to wonder if that's not the whole fiendish idea behind McCain's choice. If so, we're just playing right into his hands, aren't we?

My first wish in this whole thing is that the media takes John McCain's request seriously and quits discussing family matters and starts discussing world matters.

My second wish is that John McCain takes his own advice and puts a stop to his own campaign's frequent snide remarks about Obama's wife, father, step-father, and half-siblings.

Lo




[This message has been edited by Laura Heidy-Halberstein (edited September 01, 2008).]

There's nothing better than a parboiled leg of Labrador, and I'm salivating over Feeney's demise for a good potfull. I am part Sioux, I should add.

A dog like that, you don't eat him all at one time.

Sam's Haiku

A pot of Souix stew
isn't very good for you.
It makes you 'arf.