"If justice truly resides with those who have the power to administer violence, then justice itself shifts when power shifts." And there'll always be a hundred fools dancing in the streets, puffed up for all the wrong reasons. When it's the others, it's obscene; when it's ourselves, it's justice. Thus the general malaise becomes infinite violence.

Thanks, Julie.

Nemo

Skip--

Such blatant mischaracterizations--hell, lies--about the positions people less jingoistic than you have taken are part of what makes many of us loath to rejoice. America became a meaner, more authoritarian place in which expressing any criticism of such a grossly absurd concept as the "War on Terror" led to accusations of "being with the terrorists." Declaring war against a political tactic is like it would have been had the U.S. declared war on bombs after Pearl Harbor. We had years and years of fearmongering and warmongering around a core mission that was sufficiently nebulous to provide a great deal of cover for the eighty-year clusterf#&k that was the Bush Administration--with a great deal of Democratic support.

You have utterly misrepresented me, Skip, and I demand an apology. You don't get to smear people as terrorist sympathizers here. This isn't Fox News.

Yes, Julie. Thank you. And, please, no apologies for not being able to shut up (per your reason for editing~,:^) It was good to read what you've written.

Ed--right you are.

Let's not get into the demanding of apologies, please. It's a red-hot topic, there'll be red-hot opinions expressed, and people who won't like them. I've been watching this thread in dismay since it started. I knew there had to be one, and that it would cause grief. I'm simply not going to let this thread turn into a mud-sling. I apologise in advance if it would offend people, but if we can't return to calm discussion I will close the thread. No doubt that will fire up the same people who got so cross last time I did that, but I don't want to spend the rest of the day on the edge of my seat in case someone says something inflammatory. The angry ones will be welcome to pour burning oil over me in Eratosphericals, and I'll be happy to leave you to it.

Please bear in mind, I'm the man who has to read every post in the conversation boards, just in case......

Adam--

While I can understand and indeed sympathize with your desire to remain above the fray and even-handed, as usual, the smearing is coming from a single source. I do not retract my demand for an apology. False, public accusations of sympathy for terrorists have come too glibly in recent years, and they can do great damage if not countered and refuted. Indeed, most people on this thread--all but one by my lights--have refrained from such smear tactics. The exception is usually the exception.

For goodness' sake, folks -- the man was a terrorist who orchestrated the deaths of thousands of Americans and countless thousands of others besides. Death is what he deserved. Indeed, a quick death was probably far too kind.

There is nothing political about it. He was a mass murderer who was determined to inflict his distorted extremist way of life on our own. There is no way he could be placated, and he had (and still has) a large, dedicated following who were (and likely still are) willing and able to inflict terror on more and more people.

When we talk about the deaths of Mussollini, Stalin, Hitler, or even McVeigh, Bundy or other mass murderers, we don't typically show any remorse for their killings, because we know that they committed great human atrocities, and more to the point, we know that those human atrocities would have continued if those people had lived.

For some human beings, there is no chance of reform. Bin Laden is one of them. I certainly rejoice, rejoice, rejoice that this mass murderer is dead.

Unfortunately, in our current political climate, everything has to be scrutinized and politicized. Personally, I don't care who killed Bin Laden, whether it was Bush, Obama, a soldier or one of Bin Laden's own people. The important point in all of this is that he is dead.

Let the exception be the exception, Quincy. There is no moral high ground here, just an exchange of views which will change nothing.
I have to be away from my computer for a while now, but I hope everyone can just get on with their civilized commenting on the news. Please.

No one is positing remorse for the killing, Shaun. I sense only a reluctance to rejoice in the continuing spiral of violence that is such a large part of human history. I'd suggest a careful re-reading of many of the thoughtful responses on this thread to see if you can't discover some of that nuance that is lacking from your own last post. To pretend that it is all too simple is just that: too simple. It has nothing whatsoever to do with politics. Scrutinizing is no trendy sin, it is what thoughtful human beings have always done.

Adam, if any of us truly believed that the exchange of views never ever changed anything, why would we be here, talking, writing...?

Nemo

Oh, don't worry Nemo. I'm up to date on my remedial reading classes. I speak English good.

And yes, it IS as simple as all that. It always has been. There are some human beings who do not deserve their lives. Bin Laden was one of them. Removing him from our planet is a good thing. Any thoughtful human being would know that there was no other way.

Nemo, sometimes we talk and write simply because we're breathing and thinking and have thoughts that seem to differ from the ones others are expressing. Or because we want to crystallize what we do think. I believe that's often how GT functions.

What I read here may help to shape or support thoughts I already have, but it's unlikely to change their direction completely. That's the sense I give to Adam's observation about lack of change.