Michael,
The idea that Norm's posts drive folks off is stupid.

I was under the impression that workshop threads were deleted after a short time, so password protection was never much of an issue for me. The issues for me are i) working up the nerve to post a poem, and ii) making the commitment to read others’ work carefully and sympathetically, and to comment accordingly. The combination of i) and ii) can feel like a big ask to me. But I’ve recently been toying with posting in non-met, which is increasingly interesting to me. So maybe I’ll follow Andrew M’s exhortation.

I agree with Andrew F that members who show up only to self-promote, or only to engage in reciprocal promotion, degrade the site.

I do have a question that I’ve been longing to pose to other poets for some time – about their internal censors – that I’ll post here in G.T. A small step, perhaps.

Here are two probably unhelpful comments:

1. When I first came to the Sphere more than ten years ago, I think the first thread I read was something just like this one, and there have been several since then through the years.

2. I have been away from the site for significant periods of time over the years. Sometimes the resaons for dropping off have been big arguments about policies and moderator behavior, etc. But those reasons by themselves don't usually keep me away long. The main reasons for my own disappearances, and certainly for the longest of them, are usually a constellation of personal, professional, familial, and other matters that take my attention away from the Sphere, from poetry, or from both. I suspect that is the case for many people.

If there is any conlusion suggested by these two comments, it might be that what makes people come and go isn't all about the Sphere. What the Sphere has to offer is strong and gives me (and perhaps others) ample incentive to return. There is a danger sometimes in seeking "solutions" -- "Striving to better, oft we mar what's well."

David R.

One point I haven't seen is that a poem posted on one of the boards is probably going to be revised by the author before it's submitted somewhere. Thus, it generally wouldn't be the same poem that got crits.

Also, for the record, the only poem I've ever had in Rattle was in fact workshopped here, and may have even appeared in a Bakeoff or some such.

David R.

I have always ignored entirely any stuff about a poem posted elsewhere> I have had poems accepted twice in different journals but so what. And, as Sam says they are often different in detail. We mustn't let ourselves be dictated to.

What Michael says is always interesting but actually makes little difference to me. Ann and Sam are my touchstones, and Susan too. Norman often has intersting things to say and others too. I am sorry for Holly going. I find his poetry attractive and distinctive. As for memory, I often forget my own poems and am surprised anew at their distinction.

Brian, you are not much older than I am, as I remember.

I deprecate Michaels's dismissive tone regarding the Drills and Amusements. Some of the best poems can be found there.

John - there was absolutely no intention to be dismissive of Drills & Amusements. I am aware that at least one of the British magazines (I forget which, just as I'm also not sure whether to say "British" or "English" or UK) makes a fuss about it, so we've set up a special protected board. All I did wanted to do was acknowledge that situation.

Both not engaging with others’ poetry and running off when called on it were the same reflex: the prima donna reflex (located somewhere south of the ‘I gotta be me’ gland, I believe). If it weren’t true that he was getting thoughtful crits without reciprocating, he wouldn’t have left when Michael called him it.

Sorry Michael. I got you wrong.

I can't agree with you about Holly, Andrew. The Sphere is poorer without him. Perhaps his hide is not as tough as mine. I don't care what anybody says. Well almost anybody.

I miss Holly too. He was probably my favorite poet here, which is saying a lot. The 'Sphere IS poorer without him.

That said, it was ultimately his decision to leave, and it is true that he offered very little in terms of criticism to other poets. I want him back, but he would need to show some more quid pro quo.