Mary

You can't force ideograms to English and expect to match the form. That 4 x 4 form is strictly Zeiser's idea, not some ancient form, and does nothing for the translations.

I like Hamill's translation, which makes more sense, has an original flavor and appears more competent.

Ooops - double post.

[This message has been edited by Jerry Glenn Hartwig (edited August 15, 2006).]

Patricia and Jerry - thanks for all your thoughts. I really like that Hamill too. I understand that ideograms can't be forced into a 4x4. But how do you explain that the Hamill appears to be 4x4? My aim with doing these is not to translate or parody or imitate but just to be influenced by the culture, without losing one's own culture and voice.
Mary

I know the thread is old, but based on this source, "Wu" means 5, not the name of a dialect or rural area. There are also "Qi" or 7 characters per line, as an alternate set of forms for these Tang poems.

It seems as if the sound is most critical and with one character per sound, this could be converted to syllables in a translation.

Here's a translation of the cited poem based on the transliteration keeping the abcb rhyme pattern, the five sounds (syllables) per line, and a strict meter across all four lines to simulate the strict tonal pattern that is supposedly in the original.

Drinking, it got dark.
Blossoms piled on.
Drunk, moon's in the stream.
Birds and people, gone.

Here's another translation of this poem by Waley .



[This message has been edited by Frank Hubeny (edited July 12, 2007).]

These roses are red.
Those violets are blue.
This sugar is sweet--
And so, dear, are you.

Hmm

Would this be an example of one in English?