Eratosphere - Haiku Master Class with Lee Gurga, 2008

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- - Haiku Master Class with Lee Gurga, 2008 (https://www.ablemuse.com/erato/showthread.php?t=5767)

Mary!!

I have learned this: the most important thing about Haiku is that ... you got it, you got it!!
It's about sharing an experience.

I am so excited that you got it that I must go outside again and run around in big circles!!

Cally

cally lol -- I do belive you are a bobtail out on the loose. Both are flooded with life and truth.

kkeep going and going and going

Lee,

Thanks for the feedback. I am glad you seemed to like most of them and I mostly agree with what you found lacking in some.

Quote:

Originally posted by Lee Gurga:
I will never know
if that is a sea lion
or a bunch of kelp.

And as a consequence, neither shall I!

Which is sort of the point. I wasn't sure if this was a knock or compliment.

Quote:

Originally posted by Lee Gurga:
Forgive me, spider –
the sun only lit one strand
of your sidewalk web.

Issa-like in it's element of compassion.

I'll take that as a huge compliment. Issa is my favorite, and this is obviously an homage/ripoff.

Thanks again for your critique and kind remarks.

David R.

lee goodonya.. great links to spend a day exploring.

( I'm stuck in this chair after pulling my back again yesterday)

and let me add, any bugger who tries to say this form is meant to be stuck in free verse better spend a few weeks trying it. it is hard, very hard,

like

Cally's bug eater

two pinches of snuff
for lizard laying and
ignite dragons breath

yes I'll keep trying ~~ henie

edit in

oops I called stephen lee.. think he noticed!

[This message has been edited by Henrietta kelly (edited October 16, 2008).]

Lee,

I have a couple questions I'd love to hear you respond to. They are both pretty big, so I'll divide them into two posts. Here is the first:

The whole issue of kigo, season words, or seasonal references is very controversial. As I said in the Open Mic thread, I have ducked out of many heated discussion on the matter. As a haiku writer, I have shifted positions in the debate more than a few times, and I have finally decided to be comfortable not making up my mind how I feel about it. Earlier in this thread, you said, "The seasonal image is important, but not always necessary if you have some other element to add depth or interest to the poem." I wonder if you could say more about that, and about the whole issue of seasonal references in haiku.

David R.

Here is the second "question." Are these questions? (I hope others aren't too annoyed by my multiple posts.)

Quote:

Originally posted by Henrietta kelly:
...any bugger who tries to say this form is meant to be stuck in free verse better spend a few weeks trying it. it is hard, very hard...

Henie's remark is a perfect lead-in to this:

In the Open Mic thread we were discussing craft in haiku, and Stephen suggested I bring it up with you. I think one of the many myths about haiku is that it requires little or no revision -- Steve referred to the "Revise? Me? I'm channeling the universe! attitude that sometimes builds up among "Zen school" haikuists in the West."

For laziness' sake I'll quote what I said in the other thread. I said, "It does seem counter-intuitive that one would have to revise and carefully craft a poem that attempts to capture a present moment in a seemingly unmediated way. But I think it actually takes a great deal of distance and artifice to pull it off." Later I added:

Quote:

Originally posted by David Rosenthal:

More on craftsmanship in haiku. I read this story somewhere -- Stephen, maybe you know where I might have heard this, or if it is even "true." Buson apparently told a student that the key to writing haiku was something like using everyday images to get beyond everyday experience. The student asked how to do this, and Buson said "read the Chinese poets." I always took this to mean the T'ang lyricists, who were absolute master craftsman working within very demanding formal structures.

I take two points from this. First, that one is not simply recreating an experience in haiku, but recreating it in a particular way, without letting it seem like you are, for lack of a better word, manipulating the images. Second, that to do so requires an utter commitment to, and deep study of, craft.

David R.

I also think this question and the Buson story are particularly interesting given the history of haikai and extemporaneous linking verse, about which I know very little.

I know that is a lot to respond to, but I'd love to hear your response.

David R.

[This message has been edited by David Rosenthal (edited October 15, 2008).]

Two serious haiku:

Early autumn
afternoon light--
your cheeks still blush.

The muskrat
leaves mud contrails
in reflected clouds.

and an homage/parody/joke

White bratwurst;
add a pair of wings--
a plump pigeon!

any criticisms greatly appreciated.

Dear Mr. Gurga,

Thank you for joining us and sharing your expertise.

Nobuyuki Yuasa's translation of Basho's The Narrow Road to the Deep North, and Other Travel Sketches is a book I treasure. However, in one of the links Stephen provided, Higginson (God rest him) was fairly critical of Yuasa's translation. He felt the haiku too wordy, and compared the prose to Irving Walsh (whoever that is). Is the Yuasa translation faulty? And if so, are there better ones available?

And another question, if I may -- many of the footnotes in The Narrow Road indicate that the haiku were in the irregular forms such as eight-seven-five or six-eight-five or seven-seven-five. So I was just wondering, how strict was the five-seven-five form in traditional Japanese haiku?

Regards,
Brian

black tree, white skies.
filmed. framed.
look up! birds soar.

OR

black tree, white skies.
filmed. framed.
look up! birds fly away.

how to get through the day?
elementary, my dear Watson!
a six-pipe problem