Victoria,

If you have only done a few of these, you are doing pretty well. Only think I would suggest to change is the period in the last line to a colon. And perhaps the dash to an ellipsis.

Don’t see any sins here. (The eyes before the cat are the key, I believe.) It seems to be presented in the order of perception, allowing us to experience what you experienced.

Yes, it titled black cat it would be a different poem—nothing for the reader to discover.

Lee

Renate,

Not too bad for the first time! I think “ignite” is OK here. On the other, do you really need “autumn?” As far as I know, it is almost always when school begins in the west. In other words, if not otherwise stated, e.g., “winter term” autumn is implied, perhaps? As some of you may know, in Japan it begins in April! Also, no need to capitalize autumn, is there?

Let’s see some more!

Lee

Thank you, again, Lee. I do see what you mean. I committed another Tontoism! Yikes!

I also understand the bit about the mini-series haiku. My concubine was one of those. You did not garner from it that she opened herself to the Emperor while his wife slept? Ack! A mini-series, for sure...never mind...lol.

I'm happy the finches planted some of their kisses on you.

The passion flower, with all the lore behind it, hanging on a wooden cross trellis with its head down, did spur that haiku. I just need to find a way to say it, I guess. Or, perhaps I should say it in a different form, perhaps a cinquain...that might work. (excuse me while I think out loud)

Now I must stop slacking and re-visit this later. Your help is appreciated more than you can possibly know. Oh, and another thing--hearing how rare a good haiku is, has made me relax a bit. Hearing about the life-span of a poem published on the net as opposed to hard copy gave me the willies! LOL...

Kathy

Lee

You're doing a masterly job, and thank you!

You said In Japanese, one of the six (or is it seven, I forget) major categories of seasonal words is called “Gods and Buddhas.”

Which season are the "Gods and Buddhas"? Also, could you tell us the other categories?

I posted an attempt on May 2 at 3:58 pm but you must have missed it. The Aeolian harp is a soundbox with strings which makes music from the wind's vibration (often placed in a window), as you probably know. Any comment on that attempt at haiku?

Terese

Lee:

Fun experiment. Thanks for the feedback.

Tom

PS I had a good laugh about the BUSH/CHENEY sign.

[This message has been edited by nyctom (edited May 06, 2004).]

Therese,

Thanks for the kind words. I will try to continue to earn them!

In response to your questions . . .

You have made me go the to book case and get down the volume of R.H. Blythi’s HAIKU on “spring.” The seven categories of season words are:
The Season
Sky and Elements
Fields and Mountains
Gods and Buddhas
Human Affairs
Birds and Beasts
Trees and Flowers

Please note that there are season words for all of the seasons in each category. In this spring volume, he quotes haiku with the following seasonal expressions (in part):

The Season
spring begins
the spring day
tranquility
spring evening
Sky and Elements
frost
the spring moon
the spring breeze
spring rain
Fields and Mountains
remaining snow
the spring sea
Gods and Buddhas
the shrine of Ise
the Nirvana picture
Human Affairs
the dolls’ festival
kites
the ebb-tide shell gathering
tilling the field
closing the fireplace
Birds and Beasts
skylarks
cranes
horseflies
mud snails
cats in love
frogs
Trees and Flowers
camellias
plum blossoms
cherry blossoms
shepherd’s purse
violets


You might be interested to hear that about 20 years ago a Japanese poet named Yagi Kametaro made an informal survey of season words and reported that the largest group was “human affairs.” This ought to put to rest the idea that haiku are “about” nature.

Of course, many of the seasonal expressions used in Japanese haiku are not appropriate to our haiku, but some are. (“kite flying” for instance.) Contemporary English-language haiku try to avoid being imitative of Japanese haiku. On the other hand, we have much to learn of seasonal consciousness from them. If we were to make our own “Gods and Buddhas” list for spring, it would include such obvious things as Easter and Passover, Good Friday, etc. We had a great essay on Japanese seasonal consciousness in the last issue of Modern Haiku, but I am afraid it is not up on our website. But there is an essay on Korean-Japanese haiku which you might find interesting. (http://www.modernhaiku.org/essays/Ko...neseHaiku.html)

As to the Aeolian harp, thanks for the update, but I actually did know what it was. If I must comment I guess I would say that I don’t see a close enough relationship between the images to find that they relate for me poetically. Not clear enough who is collecting seedpods or why, I guess, though I confess I might be missing something obvious. (Perhaps you could explain what you had in mind?) Also, I find the relationship of the first and second lines a bit awkward . . . think it might be better with “harp’s” and no punctuation at the end of the first line. Sorry not to have more positive to say about it.

Lee

Thanks Lee, I see it is a delicate balance. You have
increased my appreciation for haiku enormously.
While it's fun trying to write one, reading them is
so much more enjoyable. Some of them are like little
explosions in the brain.
Yes, afer posting I realised the flaws in the second
poem, and that the first section was not really an image.

Rewrite:

four hundred children
chatter—crisp chalk
fresh blackboards

Renate

Just as we still have traditionalists in western poetry, I am told there remain some traditionalists in haiku who write more or less in the old style. I am told, also, that schools and colleges still teach courses in the classical Japanese literary language. Therefore, I hope a reference to the distant roots of haiku, to the seasonal poems found in the great Man'yoshuu, Kokinshuu, Shin Kokinshuu and other collections of the seventh through the thirteenth centuries, and even an attempt at an old-fashioned example, may not be completely out of place.


In the autumn rain
abroad in a strange country
grass for pillow.
_______________________


akisame ni
tabi-no-sora no de
kusa-makura

G/W




[This message has been edited by Golias (edited May 07, 2004).]

Hello, Lee, and many thanks for these interesting threads.

Whatever one’s view of haiku and other oriental forms in English, I’m sure wrestling with their demands can be a useful exercise in economy of effect, at the least. In the same way, I think, fiction writers can benefit from the exercise of attempting ultra-short stories even if they don't care for microfiction as a form.


Last frangipanis,
tyre-bruised, mingle their fragrance
with army diesel fumes


I can’t resist it: do you think I’m OK putting in “my two scents” in lieu of two explicit images?

I had a “The” at the beginning, but — Tontoism or not — I think I prefer it without. Perhaps it’s the echo of “last orders” and “last rites”. In my first shy I had frangipanis:/tyre-bruised, mingling; the “cut” was probably better, but the flow seems more natural in the above.

And Lo, Blue Ridge is an absolute gem!




[This message has been edited by Henry Quince (edited May 06, 2004).]

Middle of the night over there, early evening here... Nobody up and about? Then I’ll have to play by myself!

This miniaturism gets under the skin and could easily become compulsive. “Normal” verse begins to seem long and laboured.

bare apple trees...
still in my obstinate heart
spring strawberries ripen
----------------------------

a wren drops frozen...
the bough she clung to sends
white wreathlets after
----------------------------

while tired horses steam
Tonto drink from icy river:
Keemasabi same!
----------------------------