No, no, Lee, never enough!

"an opportunity for the poet to develop tension and interest" - yes! I found myself searching for these opportunities while writing haiku.

"I guess the point is that the lineation is one of the issues the poet should consider when writing each and every poem." - Absolutely - I found myself paying a lot of attention to the line breaks - a highly charged area of the haiku.

"i feel there should be a break or turn at the end of each line." - yes!

"to connect the realm of the senses with the realm of the spirit through experience of the physical world, including the world of the seasons." - wow.

"i have begun experimenting with my haiku in a form that turns with each line." - what a great idea.

I really like this one --



"I have not been so concerned lately about whether or not what I am writing is haiku. I just write what I want and if people want to think about whether or not it is haiku I leave that to them." - that's fascinating.

I like this one, too! --



"As you can see from these two, I have been working on love poems lately. about a year and a half ago I went into a Border¡¦s and noticed that fully half the anthologies were on a single subject: love. So I thought I would try my hand at it." - sonnets are traditionally love poems, if you ever wanted to try one.

This is my favorite of yours that I've seen - it gave me chills --

[begin haibun]

The Dress

I am at a party, saying poems to the friend sitting next to me on the couch. Someone overhears the word ¡§dress¡¨ and the room is suddenly quiet¡Xeveryone wants to know what we are talking about. Perhaps they think we have some new tidbit about Monica¡¦s Blue Dress. I explain that I was sharing a poem that had just been accepted for publication. Before I read the poem, I tell them about Philip Rowland¡¦s magazine NOON, published in Tokyo, of its purity and selectivity, handmade in the Japanese style, each poem alone on a page, without the author¡¦s name. And of my ambition to get into it.

I tell them about a cold morning in November, just me and my father. Years before, I had been to Japan and bought some fabric for my mother. Silk, blue and white and pink, covered with thousands of miniature Mt. Fujis. I had completely forgotten about it. She made dress out of it¡XI remember it now. My father says it was her favorite dress, something she never told me. I tell them she is wearing it now. Then I read the poem:


[end haibun]

Thanks, Lee, thank you, thank you. It's been such a pleasure learning from you. Hope to see you around.
Mary

Okay, so here's our first keyword challenge:

"the distinguished guest" (5 syllables)

Since we're still in DG mode, and still have a DG with us, I suggest that we post our results to the

Introducing Lee Gurga, 2008

thread nearby. There's no prize for "winning" . . . just the joy of writing some haiku.

Have at it. And have fun.

I've already posted my first go.

Steve C.

stephen

re-turds

Dawns dunny ditcher
little blister with big sister
way down in the dumps


lets raise up and find
full house flush lay down
ace it with wet face

Mary, thank you so very much for your comments and your kind remarks. Don't kid yourself--we have been learning from each other. And i do hope to be back!

Lee

P.S. I hope everyone has noted that it should be 'mother's' without the glitch where the apostrophe should be.

good morning lee

Allowances made
Glitch ditched sent down the drain to drown
Apostrophe noted


your poem was very moving

Robert, thanks for reminding me to look at these and thank you especially for including the original versions so i didn't have to hunt them down!


Orion rising
the soft crunch of snow (was ‘the sound of snow’)
beneath my feet

much more immediate, don't you think. now i can FEEL it!

along the alley— (was ‘Winter night’)
shadows shiver
around the barrel

i think this is better but wonder if you couldn't do more to vividly paint the scene than "along the"?

another memo… (was ‘early Autumn’)
the sound of leaves falling
in my office

much better, don't you think?

lights out (was ‘late night’)
spring’s first fly
bounces off the wall

yes, much, much better--we are now there!


yellow moon
on the icy prairie… (was ‘along the icy prairie…’)
chimney smoke (was ‘coming home’)

i think this one has possibilities, but 'chimney smoke' doesn't feel connected enough.

HOpe this helps!
Lee

Henie, Good morning! and thank you for your kind thoughts.
Lee

Lee,

Yes, very helpful indeed. I was still a little stuck in beginners rut of direct seasonal reference. I do think that the edits make more of an impact. I will keep the Icy Prairie close to the heart and see if anything happens.

Once again thank you for your invaluable help and encouragement!

Fr. RP

My pleasure!

Well, folks, as there is nothing left to reply to, i guess i will call it a day. Thank you all for your hospitality and your fine work. I had a great time visiting you! I will send the entries for the "turd challenge" to Charlie Trumbull and hopefully i will have the results for you soon.

I hope you all will continue to write and enjoy haiku. And please consider sending your best work to Modern Haiku. Here is the address"

Modern Haiku
POB 7046
Evanston, IL 60204-7046 USA

and please put all you haiku on a single sheet of paper and include a sase for a response. And don't forget, MH pays a whooping $1 per poem! Fantastic!

TTFN!

Lee

$1 per poem WOH!!

great
deposit
in
the can

for a new car or maybe a pint of milk.

Hi Lee,

I just wanted to say how interesting and informative this discussion has been and how much I, and I'm sure everyone, appreciates your really tireless efforts. You are always welcome here so don't be a stranger!

Best Regards, Roy

And of course a huge thank you to Steve Collington for a job so very well done!

[This message has been edited by Roy Hamilton (edited October 22, 2008).]

Lee - I very much like what happens in your centered poems. Thanks so much for sharing them, and the wonderful haibun examples. And thanks of course to you and Stephen for your crits, ideas, explanations. Looking forward to next year's....

[SC - did u see PM?]

Hi Seree,

Re PM, yes I did. I'm sorry I haven't got back to you on all of it yet . . . I have a big backlog of things at the moment, both here and elsewhere.

Anyway, in the meantime, check out the Haiku Resources page. I think you might find it easier to navigate now.

Steve C.

Hi, Folks! The results are in! Below you will find the comments on your sublime efforts by MH editor Charles Trumbull. If the Proud Poet would like to provide me with a postal address (through a pm, i presume), i will be happy to send the promised prize volume. Thank you all for your fine eliminative lyrics!

Lee

Why I take on a commission to judge a contest about morning turds is beyond me! Maybe because it is so much like going through the submissions to my journal. Every once in a while a good one keeps popping back up.

Anyway, without further ruminations or comments on your Poets’ assignment of putting a high burnish on a turd, I restate Lee’s instruction to me, which was: “The challenge is to improve on my:


second flush--
the little morning turd
cheerfully pops back up”


I also understand that the Poets were to submit poems in 5-7-5 syllabic format. In contention are [drum roll]:


1. flushed but unflustered
and cheerfully popping back
to stay . . . undeterred


2. already flushed twice,
the cheerful little turdlet
pops back up again


3. third flush in a row
a buoyant howdy-doodie
keeps popping back up


4. Dawns dunny ditcher
little blister with big sister
way down in the dumps


5. lets raise up and find
full house flush lay down
ace it with wet face


By way of general comments, I think none of these five actually improves Lee’s haiku (senryu, actually, but no matter), which says it all in plain language with great economy, a modicum of shock (the “turd” word), and even an instruction to the reader as to how the poem is to be read (“cheerfully”). He captures the perplexity of the moment (“what am I supposed to do about it?!”) and even gives his readers a hint that this situation is a metaphor of sorts for the poet’s life.

The five Poets all sought to improve Lee’s creation through wordplay of one kind or another. We have the subject humorously renamed in three cases: “turdlet,” “howdie-doodie,” “dunny ditcher,” while Poet 1 modestly declines to name the little plopper and Poet 5 seems to be playing some sort of shell game with the item in question. Diff’rent strokes, I guess. Poets 1 and 5 find humor in raising their poetic diction to a high level when describing the basest of things. Poet 4 gives us a pile of poetic poop: alliterative Ds in lines one and three, internal rhyme in the second line, ... I can almost hear this poet grunt in his morning creative process.

Lee’s original and the versions by all Poets with the possible exception of No. 5 personify the turdchik. Think about the ramifications of that for your Weltanschauung!

The characteristics discussed above--all kinds of wordplay including unusual language, rhyme, excessive alliteration, elevated diction or dialect--any usage that calls the reader’s attention away from the images--generally harm a haiku rather than improve it.

In terms of craft, all five Poets managed to cram the assignment into 5-7-5 in a way that does not seem too padded, too spare, or too awkward (bad line breaks, etc.). Still, there are excesses that could be trimmed: The second haiku has “already” and “little turdlet,” both of which are overly redundant; No. 3’s “buoyant” repeats “keep popping back up” and seems to have been added for padding; No. 4’s “way” certainly was. As for grammar and such, the version I got was missing apostrophes -- perhaps a problem in transfer of files from one computer system to another-- and I suspect Poet 5 meant “rise” rather than “raise” -- or was bending language to extend his poker metaphor. I confess that No. 5’s verse mystifies me: on the basic level I don’t know what a ”full house flush” is, or “ace it with wet face” means. To appreciate a poem I have to understand it - -the more so with haiku, which thrives on simplicity of language.

So, my choice is . . . [another drum roll]

. . . inevitably . . . [drum still rolling]

Number Two! This poet stuck to the assignment and kept the verse close to the original, using simple language and reigning in the humor.

Charlie Trumbull
15 October 2008

number 5 here

all I can say is "oh poop" lee's charlie's not a poker player.. and here I was trying to bluff him--

number 2 it just goes to show its size that counts when it comes to being happy

http://www.ablemuse.com/erato/ubbhtml/biggrin.gif congrats on the big win

2. already flushed twice,
the cheerful little turdlet
pops back up again




[This message has been edited by Henrietta kelly (edited October 22, 2008).]

Congratulations Number Two!

Charles, thanks for taking this on for us.

I know it was a tough assignment; I'm glad you weren't deterred.

Steve C.

Number two -- that is either destiny or a clever setup by the contest organizers. Well, I suppose this is just the sort of contest I'd win. But I am happy to get a copy of Lee's book, which I am ashamed I do not already have.

Thank you Lee for the book, and Charles for selecting my turdlet.

David R.

P.S. -- Thank you Steve for hosting. (The thread and Lee's visit, I mean, not the turn contest, though maybe that too.)



[This message has been edited by David Rosenthal (edited October 25, 2008).]

It certainly would have made sense to read the rules of the contest, no? How did I miss them?! I vaguely wondered why all the entries sounded similar. Anyhow, congrats to you, David! Thanks again to you, Lee and Steve C.

Well - of course it had to be Number 2!!!

It's rhyming slang for POO!!!

Cally

edit back to say - OH - having read the judge's comments thoroughly now, I see that was the intention! (silly duffer me!)

[This message has been edited by Cally Conan-Davies (edited October 23, 2008).]

cally
when it comes to piddle make sure you get the be three

round two anyhoo


ach! ma wee jobbee
in bumbee tartan afloat
in loch McPiddle.

Henie - that is a real pisser!!! http://www.ablemuse.com/erato/ubbhtml/biggrin.gif

I will print it out right now and hang it above the dunny, for you can be sure that's where all the world will see it!! Imagine - if poetry where published on dunny walls, all the world would be readers of poetry!

Very special start to my day - thanks hen!!!

Cally

They used to, but got painted over, always made me smile ,
lol-- trust you to understand the Scottish wording