While we're talking about pubs and sales....
 

Publishers often say to prospective authors that what sells books, above all, is giving readings. Some poets active on this site say the same thing. I wonder how we know that's true.

And the reason I wonder is that it feels contrary to my experience. I go to readings only a few times a year, and I don't always buy when I attend. I'm far more likely to be motivated to buy by a great review, and I'm much more likely to buy online.

So am I just (yet again) weird in this regard? :) What's the evidence that more sales by small poetry publishers happen because of readings? (Or what else is going on here?)

This is tangential to your topic, Maryann, but what makes me want to buy a book, other than its contents, is what the book looks like. I'm 100% serious, too. The covers of so many modern poetry books consist of a random nature/garden sort of picture in a square frame, the title in a pedestrian font, the author's name in the same pedestrian font (a little bit smaller this time), and all backed in that exciting new color: mauve.

Look at the wonderful new editions of Nabokov, Camus, The Wind in the Willows, Kurt Vonnegut, and so on. Look at music (Rhino records released a large anthology of bubblegum music from the 60's in what looks like a hat box). Look at film. They all look great. Assuming that the artist had a say in the aesthetics of the packaging, one can tell that a lot of thought has gone into how to present the thing to the world. I suppose someone can disagree with me and tell me that that sort of stuff shouldn't matter in poetry, but I would suppose that that person is wrong.

But to answer your question, I would be more likely to buy a book if I heard the poet read. Reviews are subjective.

Orwn, I like snappy presentation too, and I've said so in reviews. I agree that it affects buying behavior. Poets sometimes have no say, though, about their cover art, so I'd like to hope that a ho-hum cover wouldn't trump good poems.

Certainly. But even a review that says "I didn't enjoy this" can convey enough information about the book to let the reader come away thinking, "I'd like this, even if the reviewer didn't." Julie Stoner's reviews in the most recent Able Muse are a relevant example.

And poets' readings can influence us negatively as well, if a poet isn't a good performer. The poems on the page might well be better than a poet's reading lets me know. That's why the best review is one that offers generous helpings of the poems.

So I'm still wondering, what do we know and how do we know it in terms of sales at readings?

I probably don't know what I am talking about (again) but readings seem to me to be entertainment and not sales generators. Sure some locals or friends will buy a book from an unknown after a reading, but most of those folks buying at online book sites have never heard the poet or author perform and they are buying anyway.

I still believe that most poetry sales are generated because someone read a poem or several poems that they like and chose to buy the book for that reason. I once had a complementary letter from a lady who had read one of my stories in a magazine (in Sweden) and wrote to ask where she could buy my books. I wish, but it made my day. It made my week in fact. I haven't had many fan letters, but those few I have had were from folks who had simply read something I'd written somewhere and wrote to say something nice.

I used to do regional readings in Swedish and it was cool if some came up afterward to chit-chat a little. But I've seen writers lug in big boxes of books and then lug them home again. I've even gone to readings of my famous friends (famous in Sweden) and they sat aterward and patiently inscribed their books (or had pre-signed them), but really, even in Stockholm the queue was never so long that it would make a decent night's wages. And they always sold for less than it cost in the bookshop but more than it cost when they were marked down for a clearance sale.

Getting written up in the newspaper is nice and good publicity but that always comes the day after when everyone has gone home.

Maybe I just want to believe that readings don't help so I don't soak my pillow, so I won't mourn missing out on the real thing. I live so remote from the English-speaking litterati or even the English-speaking Swedish litterati so even if I wanted to do readings nowadays it isn't realistic.

But I realize it is expected in the USA and England and I understand the reasons. The only time I've explored the terrain (English market), because the very nice editor-publisher told me truthfully and early that she couldn't afford to publish authors who couldn't take part in self-promoting events, no matter how much she liked their work. I understand that fully, and we retain a good writer-editor relationship.

Maybe I should go back to writing in Swedish, but I write much better in English. So I won't.

I go to a reading with the expectation of buying a book unless I very much dislike the reader/poems. I like to do what I can to support writers/poets. I generally go to one reading a month in my general community, and like most people, I don't have loads of money to spread around on this, but I think of two things: 1 -- if I ever have a book, I hope when I do readings that people will be moved to buy my book, so I respond as I would like to be responded to; 2 -- because I attend local readings, I see buying the books as a way of supporting writers in my community and learning more about them and their work.

Most books/chapbooks cost between 10-20 dollars. I don't find that an unreasonable amount (along with a drink, depending on the venue) to spend on an evening's activity. Of course I'm not in an area where there's a poetry reading a couple of times a week...in that situation, I'd be more discriminating out of necessity.

Marybeth

In my own experience, for relatively unknown authors (like most of us), a reading is what sells a book. For all the crowing & toot-toot-tooting I do up here when a new chapbook comes out from EXOT BOOKS, by far the largest share of sales is at a live reading. In other venues there's lots of back-patting and high-hatting, but not so much ponying-up. I must also say that I have yet to receive any sales after even the most glowing of reviews for an EXOT title--even, ahem, after Paul Stevens marvelous piece about Mike Alexander's brilliant We Internet In Different Voices.

Other than that, I second Orwn's remarks. It's one of the reasons I carry on with EXOT BOOKS: to give authors some sort of creative setting for their words. Just for the record I would never publish a book for which the author did not give explicit and enthusiastic approval of the visual design. More than any other form of publicity, especially for relative newcomers, I think design is paramount. I am appalled by the look of almost all the chapbooks I see.

Nemo

I have been to a lot of readings and have given a few. When I am attending a reading, I buy the book only if I enjoyed hearing it (and usually I expect to re-read it and learn from it, which means it is written in form). For free verse, I tend to read the books from the library, with the exception of a few great favorites. I will buy poetry books that I pick up and read in a bookstore, if I am very impressed with the quality of the work (but I must say that I buy those mainly at West Chester, because they tend to be formal poetry, which most of my local libraries do not carry). I do not buy books because of a great review (I have been burned too often) unless I really like the excerpts from poems that are included. My taste and the taste of reviewers are often just too dissimilar.

When I have given readings, I usually sell a few books. The books I sell are sometimes not to other poets, but just to people who want to buy a book from a poet they have heard in person. Even if I don't sell any books, I think giving readings is worthwhile. To be heard, to move people, to show them that poetry can be understandable and enjoyable--all are reasonable goals.

Susan

I appreciate having these responses. Evidently I am weird, at least a little. Something to think about.

I have tried to find other ways to sell books, putting readings on YouTube, publicity on the internet, etc. and nothing has worked as well as reading. Let's face it, books of poetry whether from small presses, university presses or major national publishers sell only a few hundred books. The only exception I know to this, with the exception of dead or celebrity poets, was Garrison Keillors Good Poemswhich started with a first printing of 73,000 and has gone into a second printing.

I seem to be the only one whose purchases are triggered by having read a poem, or several, that causes me to admire the writing. I accept that it is true, but I'm sorry to hear it.

Don't worry, Janice, I do it too. It takes liking more than one poem by an author to get me to buy his or her book, but enjoying what I read in a magazine or online is a big factor for me in spending my measly bucks on books. And Maryann, I guess I'm weird along with you. Reviews with quotes get me to buy books. Then again, I almost never go to readings so of course I don't buy books after them.

The thing is, Maryann, it's harder to not buy a book with the author looking on than it is online, say, where the author may not know which five of the twenty who said they'd buy books actually did. Readings sell books, albeit rarely huge numbers in a go, but so does lugging them around as an author and having a copy available when the book comes up. I've sold books to the guy sitting next to me on the plane, a Basque couple at a Greenwich Village restaurant who thought I "looked like a poet," and at the Cuirt festival in Galway to everyone who expressed regret at missing my launch (I think that was almost twenty sales based on, "Well, I do have a couple copies in my bag...."). And so forth.

Interesting question. What leads to sales? I have no idea, but it would be nice to find an answer... ;)

Let's look at the top selling poetry books in the US from last week:

Swan by Mary Oliver (Beacon Press)
The Shadow of Sirius (paperback) by W. S. Merwin (Copper Canyon Press)
Thirst (paperback) by Mary Oliver (Beacon Press)
Evidence (paperback) by Mary Oliver (Beacon Press)
New and Selected Poems: Volume Two (paperback) by Mary Oliver (Beacon Press)
Ballistics (paperback) by Billy Collins (Random House)
The Trouble with Poetry and Other Poems (paperback) by Billy Collins (Random House)
Whitethorn by Jacqueline Osherow (Louisiana State University Press)
The Pleasures of the Damned: Poems, 1951-1993 (paperback) by Charles Bukowski (Ecco)
Human Chain by Seamus Heaney (Farrar, Straus and Giroux)

The answer is pretty obvious. It's name recognition. What they used to call mindshare in the internet days, or before that, brand image identity. I'd venture to guess that just about everybody reading this message knows all of those names, with the possible exception of one (and there's a delicious irony in that exception, as she does LOTS of formal stuff: sonnets, villanelles, pentameter. And yet, a search of the entire history of this site yields precisely three threads in which she's mentioned!). Also, that one person who has four in the top ten? She's got some others in the top thirty: http://www.poetryfoundation.org/jour...temporary.html

Ok, so how does one build mindshare? It seems there are only a few ways: readings, publications, awards, articles lectures and reviews, buzz among readers. Are there any other ways?

But even reading attendance is dependent on mindshare. And somebody reading to 20 people at a local bookstore may sell a book to twenty percent of her audience, but that's still only four books sold. When Wilbur came to the Folger last spring, he likely got about the same percentage, but there were an awful lot of people there...

Of course, all of this talk about sales may be counterproductive, and we'd have to construct an "as above, so below" argument to say anything meaningful about small presses... most of the books on the top 30 come from established houses. But at first glance, it does look like readings are at least a substantial part of constructing whatever it is that does actually sell books... ;)

Thanks,

Bill

and some of us have to get a book published before we can test it out. LOL

My gut says (since I have no numbers or facts to back anything up) that if someone finally decided to publish my book (best I've done is 2nd runner up) that the people who would buy it would be those that might attend a reading.

Or if I had a fabulous review by a big-name - then I might get a few more buyers.

The rest of my readers would be the recipients of Christmas presents.

So I think for someone who may have a single book out, and is not well-known, readings do sell books. But again, I have no numbers to back that up.

Thanks again to everyone who's responding. One observation I can't resist, in reply to one of Quincy's:

Yes, of course this is true, and it's part of what Marybeth has remarked on: it's rude not to buy.

And that reminds me of nothing so much as the Tupperware parties and jewelry parties and neighborhood Avon ladies that my mother so abominated because she felt she was being forced to spend money on things she didn't really need.

The day will probably come to all of us (and has already come for some of us) when we have to rely on this effect. But must I like it? All my early training teaches me to loathe it. I'd rather take Susan's approach when I buy. So I guess I'd (we'd) better learn to read so compellingly that listeners will genuinely want the book(s).

Of course all those other ways Q. mentions are valuable too, as are Bill's points about mindshare. (And I learned my loose-meter terza rima from Jacqueline Osherow!)

Bill said:
Bill, these are the names you're referring to (top selling poetry books in the US last week): Mary Oliver (mentioned several times)/ W. S. Merwin / Billy Collins (mentioned twice)/ Jacqueline Osherow / Charles Bukowski / Seamus Heaney

Of those names above, the only one I know is Seamus Heaney. (I'm not au fait with many American poets, aside from Spherians.) I Googled Mary Oliver and no formal poems popped up; I dare say they're there, but only free verse came to the fore.
That preliminary check would not make me want to buy one of Mary Oliver's books, which is a shame because you say that she does 'LOTS of fomal stuff'.

It's just a minefield out there. Let's face it: in the US/UK, not to mention the rest of the world - there are SO many poets, how can we know all their names/read all their work/buy all their books...?

We can't.

Jayne, the "one" that Bill was implying (for American readers, to whom the others are all very famous) is Jacqueline Osherow, who writes in form, but loosely. I am familiar with her work, which has appeared in many anthologies, but she is not mentioned often on this site. Nor are certain other famous American writers whose approach to form is loose, such as Marilyn Hacker.

Susan

Oops, sorry, Bill, I got hold of the wrong end of the stick.

Thanks, Susan, and Maryann for the PM pointing out that I was mixing up Mary Oliver and Jacqueline Osherow.

Here's my excuse: it's past midnight here, and past my bedtime... zzzzzzzzz ;)

One more (perhaps final) thought on this thread. Here are a couple of sentences lifted from the Valparaiso Poetry Review interview of A.E. Stallings, following on some comments about the value of reviews:

"But I think a book tends to be out there for readers you already have. I think you win more readers by having them stumble across something in a magazine or online, on places like Poetry Daily and Verse Daily. (Poetry Daily was also an early supporter of my work.)"

A bit more support for the notion that one does gain readers from among those who simple find and like the poems.

I have to admit that the last 2-3 readings I did (and I don't do that many), people were extremely chinchy about buying books. Is it the economy, or is it me?

http://www.stanford.edu/~asorense/pa...ookreviews.pdf is getting a bit old and I suspect the results don't apply to small press poetry books.

I'm repeatedly told that reviews don't sell poetry books but poets do - at readings. Facebook and blogs help nowadays too, if you already have a following.

My theory: a combination of the economy and the availability of used (and sometimes new) copies on Amazon at much less than the cover price. People learn to be patient and to get what they want for less.

Hi all--long time no post--but to go along with what Bill said, the word has to be put out there.

At least one term for that is "buzz." I daresay what helped Quincy sell books (apart from "looking like a poet," which is entirely true) is the "well, I may have one more in my bag. . ."--had he been all "why sure! I have tons!" it would have been a bit of a turn-off.

Jill Essbaum's on a bit of a reading tour now--I should be rude and ask her how sales are going.

But I can't imagine that anything sells books like selling books and creating "buzz." Part of that can be done on line and part of that with reviews--the problem is that there's no (apparent) "poetry machine" for getting books out there (and certainly not books of anyone who isn't Billy Collins or Mary Oliver [i.e. under, what, 80?]).

All best,
Michael

Gail:

Let me echo what others have said about books being a better way of capitalizing on exposure than generating it.

Probably neither. Even in the best of times, poetry is a tough sell. "Poetry's only selling point is that it is cheaper than tear gas."

Even if you do everything right (e.g. perform rather than read or recite your work, emphasize dramatic and humorous pieces, keep banter succinct and amusing, etc.) you still run into the question of the internet age: "How do you sell something that others are giving away free?"

How many people are attending your readings? I find that higher attendance numbers affect sales percentages, not just raw totals. No one wants to be the only one buying a book, but a line-up of people doing so attracts other buyers.

-o-

I buy an extravagant amount of poetry books. Most are from folks like you at the sphere or other online places I frequent. Next, I buy because I've read an interesting review, and after that because I have met the writer at a conference or possibly a reading, but really I don't attend that many readings. So for me, it is online connections or reviews that grab me. When I do attend a reading, I do buy the book, but even here in the San Francisco area where readings are plentiful, I don't attend them unless I know the author. Just me. But I know I buy more than most. Well written reviews attract me most.

Gail, it is possible that many of those who attend your readings already have your book and that is why they are there.

But for sure, the economics apply.

From where I sit the dollar is half worth (one dollar is 6.2 kronor this morning) what it was when I was in the states (one dollar cost 12 kronor then). Consequently, I am buying more books than I usually do. And I think I'll go fishing at a contest or two and hope it goes up before I win :D. But only IF.

I still believe in the old adage, Build a better mousetrap and the world will beat a path to your door. (I don't build 'em, I buy 'em.)

Thanks for the advice, all!

I find that I don't buy much based on reviews. There are so many good reviews (and so many total strangers who somehow have my e-mail address & bombard me with book data) that I have limited my book buying to poets I know - either personally (including West Chester) or virtually (including the Sphere). This includes plenty of poets and at any rate guarantees that I'm only buying poetry I know I'll enjoy reading.