I'm off to be Catullus, the wunnerful Catullus of Old
 

Catullus country.

My wife and I are visiting north Italy from October 11 (fatigued late morning landing at Venice) until October 17 (departure on trireme from Venice for points east at early dinner time). During our time between, we want to look at (and perhaps sniff...??) Venice a bit, but mainly our goal is the Catullus sites around Sirmio and Verona (and anything truly wonderful nearby). We are interested in suggestions for transportation, lodging, saving money if not too onerous, and things of that sort. We have all our limbs and lungs, but "roughing it" for an extended time isn't looked for. We welcome any and all thoughts, suggestions, and leads to produce a truly splendid experience. If Andrew Frisardi or Gregory Dowling or anyone else could drop his/her two Euro-cents at some time into this thread, we will read it with attention. I will naturally ask also on "TripAdvisor" and read "Fodors", but there's nothing like toes-on experience.

All Best, and thanks in advance,
Allen Tice

Enjoy Allen. (And spouse too!)

Enjoy a huge gelato on my behalf!

I can't give you an iota of help with your request as I haven't been to Italy, but I have more than an iota of envy for your trip!

Have a great time, Allen! I'm sure it will indeed be "a truly splendid experience" :D

Jayne

If you're going to be in Verona, then you're only 35 miles from Vicenza, which contains a number of fine villas and other buildings designed by Palladio, especially the irresistible Teatro Olimpico.

Gregory is far more knowledgeable about that part of Italy than I am, but I'll second Brian's recommendation for Vicenza, an easy daytrip from Verona. My one time in Verona, I stayed for a few days in the campground just outside the city center, a 20 minute walk or so, passing over the Adige on the way. It was a fabulous campground, very laid back, but it sounds like you're not looking for the camping experience and October wouldn't be right for it anyway. (Actually, that's a great time of year to go -- you will be past the bestial heat we've been having all summer.) But no doubt you'll visit the Roman Arena, still in use (did Catullus go there?), read some of the graffiti outside the house the tourist board has decided was Juliet Capulet's, and take in the monuments to the Della Scala family, which hosted Dante in exile. But my favorite single site in Verona was the Basilica of San Zeno, worth visiting for the magnificent doors alone (click on the third image down). Verona is one of the most beautiful cities in Italy, I think. You'll love it.

Hello, and thanks to all who've answered so far, Brian and Andrew especially! For some reason I didn't get the alerts to your replies and had to actively click on the thread. Those doors, Andrew, remind me of the great ones in Firenze. The poet Catullus was "early" Verona (contemporary with Julius Caesar in Gaul), and only dating the arena itself can answer that question. But I think I'll see what the guides say and do some web-swinging too.

I hear there's a fine Sirmione Villa museum. And some nice views of the mountains northward.

Janice, I think you committed a comma fault in your first sentence. Apart from my spouse, who (or what) is to enjoy Allen? (Don't want no fleas etc enjoying spouse or Allen!) He and she will enjoy gelati, though, early and often.

Allen, Sirmione is a magical place. Some older guidebooks try to dignify the Roman remains and the museum at the end of the peninsula by calling it Catullus's villa but it was clearly the villa of someone a lot wealthier than a poet. However, the main thing is the wonderful position of the place, on this long tongue of land projecting out into the lake. If you are thinking of spending some time on the lake, apart from Sirmione most of the really interesting places are at the northern end, since the southern end is mainly flat. You might want to visit D'Annunzio's villa on the western shore; he was half-crazy and extremely antipatico but the Fascist regime rewarded him (or shut him up) by awarding him this villa in a superb position overlooking the lake; the house and grounds are well worth visiting. Salo', the heart of the puppet Fascist regime at the end of the Second World War, is in fact an attractive little town. A bus-ride (or you could hire a car, I guess) up the western side of the lake is extremely dramatic, passing through long tunnels and then emerging on high points with splendid views. Stop off at Limone, extremely picturesque and then spend a night at Riva at the top of the lake. Come down the eastern side, stopping at Malcesine (very picturesque, complete with castle) and Garda itself.

There, that's the lake sewn up. Verona: I lived in Verona before moving to Venice and I agree it with Andrew that it is one of the most beautiful towns in Italy. There is certainly enough there to keep you going for several days.

Visit all the sights in the centre of the city but don't miss San Zeno, as Andrew says; in addition to the superb doors there is a splendid Mantegna. And make sure you cross the river to see some of the churches on the opposite side, which people often miss, for example, Santi Nazaro e Celso - and also the splendid Giardino Giusti, one of the finest gardens in Italy.

And do go to Vicenza, as Brian says. A lovely city.

The other major city in the Veneto (apart from Venice, obviously) is Padua. You can't miss the Giotto frescoes in the Scrovegni chapel. And the basilica of Sant'Antonio is one of the great churches in Italy - worth visiting for the Donatello sculptures alone.

But then I'd also put in a plea for the following cities: Treviso, Montagnana, Asolo, Castelfranco, Cittadella... If you're going to pick just one of these, take Asolo - which also has strong Browning associations and is extremely pictursque. Probably you'll have to move to the Veneto in the end, Allen. Throw away your return ticket.

All of these places can be reached with reasonable ease (and little expense) by public transport.

Thanks, Gregory, a most un-boring reply! I will reread it more than twice in the coming weeks. Asolo. Good thought re Browning relevance. Your answer is full of grist. I like that bus ride idea, but might rent a car. I've driven before in Italy and Greece too (that one's a caution --- but well worth it). As I said, I will reread this carefully.

As to those rich ruins you refer to: They might not have all been there when our poet was active, but there was already a decent start. The famous Catullus Valerius (poet of Lesbia and co) was part of an already successful, widely spread extended trading family. T. P. Wiseman has found representatives in Spain, the Greek islands, and Anatolia who were contemporary with or possibly earlier than Catullus, the teaser of Caesar. See "Catullus and His World" for loads of info, and a sketched reconstruction of the somewhat later Valerii Catulli villa, which is on page 65 of T P Wiseman's contribution, "The Valerii Catulli of Verona" in A Companion to Catullus, edited by Marilyn B. Johnson.) If you and everyone else will forgive me here, I'd like to quote myself briefly. The following is from the last half of the essay I published in The London Magazine, August 2, 2012.

"Catullus was born into a north Italian business family successful enough to have entertained Julius Caesar overnight when he travelled. T. P. Wiseman of the University of Exeter and Christian Settipani of the Sorbonne and Oxford have found that after Catullus died his extended family continued to flourish and grew very wealthy near Verona. Solid evidence exists for direct relatives there up to two hundred years after the poet’s birth, and we know that a single odd ‘Catullus Valerius’ was born in AD 235."

But back to the trip!

Drivig in Italy, mate. Watch the undertakers. I do not mean morticians, though it might come to that, but the drivers who overtake you on the blind side. It's an Italian pastime. Having said that, I envy you. Since my wife cannot fly (in an aeroplane natch) our trips to Italy are a thing of the past. The most beautiful country in the world, and the Italians are nice too. And the food!

Allen,

A couple hours south of Verona, an easy day trip if you have a car, there's a little town, not very impressive in itself, and certainly not as picturesque as some of those mentioned (and I hope its residents will forgive me), called Ravenna. Not much in itself, but as Ovid said of another place:

"O little town, O small estate,
however unimportant you appear,
because of him I call you truly great."

Yes, there's a poet buried there. Buried isn't quite the right word. If memory serves, there's a sarcophagus. Who knows if his bones are even there? A small room in shadow, a little dank, what the heck. Here are the coordinates:

https://maps.google.com/maps?ie=UTF-...0CJgBEPwSMA A

I only visited two tombs in Europe: Yeats' and his. It's not well-kept up, it's not exactly a tourist attraction. I found it pretty moving. But then, I'm a reverent devotee...

Best,

Bill

Second all the recommendations so far, especially in Verona the Mantegna altarpiece in S. Zeno - itself a magnificent space - but, if you relish the Renaissance, do not miss the magical Pisanello frescos in Sant' Anastasia just north of the beautiful Piazza dell' Erbe. (Also a fascinating relief of the martyrdom of St Peter Martyr on the right side of the west door - if the history of the representation of anti-dualism is to your taste!)

The cultural delights of Ravenna roll way beyond the Dante tomb, but I'm sure you know of them anyway. However, do not visit without eating (lunchtime has a great buzz) in the Ca' d Ven - a wonderful wine mecca with great local food and more individual Sangioveses than you can count. (There's a similar place in Verona the Antica Bottega del Vino - Via Scudo di Francia 3 - also wonderful, especially in the evening.)

In Vicenza, I can recommend the Relais Santa Corona for a city centre hotel - even has a sinuously difficult garage (a huge plus in the city centre - but book for your car ahead as it only takes 2!) with the excellent Al Pestello about two corners away for eating and drinking - and browsing more Italian wine and food guides than you ever thought possible. And while you are hunting down classical poets, don't miss the little town of Arqua di Petrarca with Petrarch's tomb and his beautiful last house (the one from which he had his exchanges with Boccaccio about having abandoned Florence for the hospitality of a signorie and the Este family). This is a wonderful mixture of layers of worship and the sheer beauty and peace of the location and of the building itself - and what a visitors book! In any case the Eugenian hills are worth a wander through in themselves - and at their base you can find the extraordinary Casa del Vento in whose upper chamber Galileo sheltered with Venetian friends when lying low from the Papacy. The food, though very good, is not quite as special as it used to be but the naturally wind cooled cellars are a marvel and worth the visit alone.

Padova is another huge plus and often missed are the Donatello panels on the high altar of St Antonio - people tend to settle for the equestrian statue outside as the altar panels are sometimes obscured by the coach loads of pilgrims who tend to dominate the whole church. Oh - and if Mantegna has taken your fancy already, there are the sad fragments of his wonderful cycle in the Eremetani church (unfortunately largely destroyed by a stray US bomb in the war - but you can find hand tinted colour photos from before the war to set the scene.)

All that Gregory says about touring from Sirmione which is itself delightful, especially out of season. (His post sounded like my 'Gardaphile' mother in full flood, as for her this was the jewel among all the Italian lakes.)

And don't listen to John - Italian driving is nowhere near as bad as it used to be; it's just decisive - he who hesitates is... And take Gregory's advice and stay. (But you'll have noticed I haven't urged you south to Le Marche - that's a secret for another time!)

Best wishes and buon vacanza,
Nigel

Nigel, Bill, John, Gregory et al., Ravenna! Might do!
Ravenna.

I have amended my previous post to correct the reference for the sketched reconstruction of the somewhat later Valerii Catulli villa, which is on page 65 of T P Wiseman's contribution, "The Valerii Catulli of Verona" in A Companion to Catullus, edited by Marilyn B. Johnson. In both references, and especially in the volume edited by Skinner, Wiseman shows just how wealthy the early and later family of the poet were.

The family moved into governmental circles also. One non-material sign of an individual member's success might be Suetonius's mention (in Calgula 36.1) of a later Valerius Catullus who quite wore himself out as a sexual partner of Caligula. Now, I do suspect Seutonius of a randy imagination and a desire to "sex up" his portrait of Horace, for example, with stories about implausibly expensive bedroom mirrors in his farm house before it was rebuilt and expanded a century later, but Suetonius was two generations closer in time to Caligula, and Caligula was quite the horny lad of some sort (... he was aspirationally horny, at least ... not to put too fine a point to it, y'know, still, I wonder just what it was that wore out our pore l'il VC ...). In any case, even if false, the story shows one non-mercantile and non-bureaucratic area where this family was rumored to fly high, wide, and handy.

But back to the trip!

I just saw this thread, and you can add me to those who are overcome with envy, even though I was in Northern italy just 2 months ago. Venice is my favorite city in the world, and my constant prayer is, if I'm not good enough to make it into heaven, then please God let me haunt Venice...

Have a wonderful time on the Catullus Trail!

Next year in Ravenna. I can't wedge it in this time. Not only for Dante's tomb, but the incredible Byzantine-period mosaics there : Justinian, Belisarius, many churches, and the fantastically good ones in the heretical Arian Baptistry. Yeats was inspired by Ravenna (... Grecian goldsmiths ...), and he was (online company here at Eratosphere excepted), the first-best English language poet of the last hundred years (Auden being the second best).

I forgot to mention earlier that while you're in Venice, I highly recommend setting aside a day for taking the boat to Torcello. To me this was a magical place - the island is all but uninhabited (you have to be careful to get off at the right place or you'll miss it), and it contains 2 deserted Romanesque churches (a famous one with wonderful mosaics, and a smaller one next to it) which few tourists bother to see.
Also a restaurant called, I think "the Devil's Bridge" where the food is superb -- outstanding even for Italy.

Venice is cool and pastel under some clouds, but pleasantly unusual. Worth a trip. Soon off to try out a certain small hotel in Verona that a bird told me about.

Back in the US from out there. The Sirmione ruins appear very much to be the super villa, five-star inn, and international shopping mall erected by later waves of the poet Catullus's mercantile extended family. There is a painting in its museum on a shard of a man clutching a scroll and looking important who some think represents the poet Catullus. It's also on the cover of Charles Martin's translation. However, to me the original looks like a much later imaginary portrait. There's some damage, but what looks to me like a beard is definitely anachronistic and dates it from at least 125 years later than the poet. Big place though. Ideally located to handle trade traffic from all of north Europe into Italy, as well as trade across north Italy from West to East and the other way. Even in the poet Catullus's day, the family had representatives in Spain, the Greek islands, and modern Turkey (among them the poet's brother). [See T.P. Wiseman's reappraisal of Catullus.] The name borne by the poet was common in the family over the years. There is even a modern F. Catullo in the Verona phone book. Who knows? I didn't ring him up. Parking at Sirmione is a challenge because everyone in Europe wants to visit the local spas. Send me an email and you can learn our parking secret! Maria Callas had her own little villa there. The views of the Dolomites to the north up the lake are good enough to eat.

The Hotel Torcolo in Verona is very well located, if you can drive a Fiat manual drive (vroom, vroom) Panda with a city turning radius of less than one centimeter. The Hotel needs a few more light bulbs and clothes hooks, but staff is capable and even funny. North Italian Autostradas are not like those in the middle: sane and moderate driving predominates. Vicenza and its much greater area is famous for Palladio's architecture, and that influenced everything from the Hermitage to Monticello and far, far beyond. Venice has it's own (secret) seriously leaning tower easily visible from the top deck of a fat ship. On the ground, things are too crowded for a good view. Mt Etna at 9200 feet (while looking up past the civilian barriers to the top craters while stalking around stark "flank" craters that steam) was worth the tight cable car and cramped monster 4x4 lava bus ride. Empedocles is still missing, and his second shoe too. And 'his' three-story "Torre del Filosofo" vulcanological observatory at 9000 feet got buried up the roof a few years ago. Other places like Kerkyra, Croatia…

You don't 'wedge in' Ravenna, Allen. You give it some days. There's nowhere like it and the food's good too.I mean the food's always good in Italy but particularly good here. Or it was, good God, thirty years ago. But the mosaics won't have changed much. Once seen never forgotten. I haven't forgotten. Nor the food. Ah the fish at the Marine de Ravenna. Old mosaics, fresh fish and wine at bugger all a bottle, all courtesy of the communist local government. But perhaps that's different now. The best advert for communism in the world, it was.

I'm sorry, John. Your visit to Ravenna long ago must have been a personal delight, but your intruding irrelevant politics into my thread on Catullus (and Venice and Etna) is not only factually questionable, but thoughtless and selfish. (When I have drunk the almost priceless "progressive"-labelled wine found on occasion in Europe, without exception it has been liquid rubbish.)