Eratosphere

Eratosphere (https://www.ablemuse.com/erato/index.php)
-   General Talk (https://www.ablemuse.com/erato/forumdisplay.php?f=21)
-   -   A Reason Not To Hate My Species (https://www.ablemuse.com/erato/showthread.php?t=18809)

AZ Foreman 09-20-2012 11:03 AM

A Reason Not To Hate My Species
 
I was sitting in a shisha-shop in one of the lower-middle class neighborhoods of Alexandria today, and saw a blonde (and I think British) westerner (tourist?) walk past a homeless guy sitting on the street. On seeing that the homeless guy was barefoot, said European guy took the Nikes off of his own two feet and handed them to the homeless guy. The homeless guy tried to refuse, but the blonde dude pressed them into his grasp and said, in broken Arabic, انا لا محتاج. انت اكثر محتاج "I not need. You needing more" walked away. The homeless guy put the shoes on and ran over to blonde dude and hugged him. Blonde dude hugged him back, and walked away.
The homeless guy was crying, and so was I.

Gail White 09-20-2012 07:46 PM

Well, this makes my day. Thanks for bearing witness to the goodness of humanity.

Jesse Anger 09-20-2012 07:55 PM

Wonderful witness.

Jayne Osborn 09-21-2012 04:14 AM

A Reason Not To Hate My Species
 
"The homeless guy put the shoes on and ran over to the blonde dude and hugged him."

I was so relieved to read that; I was a little afraid that this was going to be "The homeless guy put the shoes on and ran over to the blonde dude and mugged him." (It would be like that in some places.)

It's always great to have one's faith in human nature restored. (On the news as I'm writing this is a programme about the two young British policewomen murdered in cold blood this week by a vicious killer. Horrible story.)

On a lighter note, we call females 'blonde', but a man with that colour hair is 'blond', so I thought your tale was about a woman at first!
(It cheers me to think that by far the majority of our species are nice people, AZ. The hateful ones are in the minority.)

Jayne

James Brancheau 09-21-2012 05:02 AM

Just Do It! Thanks for sharing that.

Ian Hoffman 09-21-2012 01:20 PM

Wow. Amazing.

Kevin J MacLellan 09-21-2012 01:39 PM

Hi AZ,
It is a remarkable tale and a wonderful event. I'm glad you got to witness it first hand. These things stay with you as so many other things don't. And thanks for sharing --as you notice, even vicariously, we all want to bear witness.

That said: I do hope you are taking every precaution to look out for yourself. You are a stranger in a strange land and, unfortunately and especially in these difficult times, you cannot count on the same spirit of brotherhood to be universal --there or anywhere. Right there in Alexandria, right now, you are a potential target of some very irrational and violent anger. (The very rational and very well informed anger will not pick you as a target!)

I ain't your big brother, AZ, but that is only cuz, . . . well, I ain't big. Take care for yourself and keep this in mind: the kindness you witness and share is not universal. Godspeed and good luck.
Kevin

P.S. If you don't make it, can I have some of your books?
(Hey, I just don't like to see things go to waste!)
kjml

Michael Cantor 09-21-2012 01:48 PM

Well told, AZ. There's a poem in there, but it would be difficult, at least for me, to carry off without coming across as sappy and sentimental. Or preachy. Like one of those things I see in New Verse News (not all of them, but many) that I agree with, but wince at. And yet AZ's narrative presentation is not sappy in the least - it's straightforward and moving. If I could figure out why the narrative appears to work better, to be a better approach, it would help my poetry. Is it because the voice AZ uses - the wise-ass "street" voice - is not a poetical voice, and consequently transcends sweetness and moralizing? If the anecdote was "poeticized" in a similar voice would it work? Or would it sound artificial? Or am I just being a jerk? All of the above? Dunno.

John Beaton 09-21-2012 02:31 PM

Coincidentally: http://www.globalwinnipeg.com/winnip...613/story.html

John

Siham Karami 09-21-2012 03:24 PM

It was a relief to hear this story. Like Jayne, the "blonde" was a keyword for female at first (a sorry factoid) and I half expected a more confrontational conclusion. Not all recipients of largesse are so gracious. It's moving on both sides, the willingness to give, of course, but also the willingness to receive. Across cultural and rhetorical (stereotyping) barriers. There's so much of the opposite -- it's refreshing to hear this.

Best,
Siham

Charlotte Innes 09-21-2012 03:47 PM

Agreed! A little break from all the hatred in the world. Lovely. Thanks, AZ. However, I am always touched and amazed at how much goodness there is out there. Over the years, people have helped me out in all kinds of situations--have really put themselves out--and I've seen this happen to others too. What's interesting to me is, why does this always feel surprising?! Well, perhaps because the hatred and violence seems so pervasive sometimes, it really gets one down.

I was also interested in Michael's question: how does one put this into poetry? I wonder... Straightforward narrative in a poem is refreshing too, but yes, there needs to be some new take on the matter.

Just out of curiosity I looked on the web and came up with this poem by Naomi Shihab Nye (below). Some might think it sappy, but she does make a point about kindness without being too gushy. Does anyone else know any kindness poems?

Kindness

Before you know what kindness really is
you must lose things,
feel the future dissolve in a moment
like salt in a weakened broth.
What you held in your hand,
what you counted and carefully saved,
all this must go so you know
how desolate the landscape can be
between the regions of kindness.
How you ride and ride
thinking the bus will never stop,
the passengers eating maize and chicken
will stare out the window forever.

Before you learn the tender gravity of kindness,
you must travel where the Indian in a white poncho
lies dead by the side of the road.
You must see how this could be you,
how he too was someone
who journeyed through the night with plans
and the simple breath that kept him alive.

Before you know kindness as the deepest thing inside,
you must know sorrow as the other deepest thing.
You must wake up with sorrow.
You must speak to it till your voice
catches the thread of all sorrows
and you see the size of the cloth.

Then it is only kindness that makes sense anymore,
only kindness that ties your shoes
and sends you out into the day to mail letters and
purchase bread,
only kindness that raises its head
from the crowd of the world to say
it is I you have been looking for,
and then goes with you everywhere
like a shadow or a friend.

OK, so there you are!
Charlotte

Michael Cantor 09-21-2012 03:53 PM

Sorry to be a hard-ass, Charlotte, but that one sounds very sappy and very abstract to me. I think one of the reasons that AZ's narrative works is that it is so specific, so grounded in two individuals and a specific act of kindness.

Charlotte Innes 09-21-2012 04:05 PM

No problem, Michael. I take your point. And yes, the specific moment in AZ's narrative really makes it work. But this was the only poem I could find after a quick look--interesting, eh?

If you or anyone knows of any poem that would pass the Cantor test, I would love to read it!

Charlotte

Kevin J MacLellan 09-21-2012 08:00 PM

Michael,
I dunno either. But my guess is that it has everything to do with sincerity; the sincerity of his chosen diction is immediately apparent, mainly because it is so familiar. A poet would have to make the language choices equivalent ti that degree and kind of immediacy, authenticity.

I think, at bottom, this is what they mean by the old adage "write what you know."
All joking aside, you can't fake authenticity. Who would know how?
kjml

Mary Meriam 09-21-2012 08:22 PM

Read Rose Kelleher's poems for unsappy specific acts of kindness. Stay tuned for one of them in the December issue of Lavender Review.

Here's my review of Rose's Bundle O'Tinder.

PS: Great story, AZ.

Skip Dewahl 09-21-2012 11:42 PM

A one time act of kindness like that lasts as long as the shoes don't wear out. Rather than that, why don't people admit that they would never consider working beside the likes of such a lowlife. Not saying he is, just stating the obvious thoughts that must go through the heads of people who do the easy act of charity. Else why didn't he go further and invite the guy into his car for a vegan meal in an expensive restaurant, discuss Proust, and find him a position of employment where he works. I'm no better than the blond guy either, by the way, and probably less giving, but I don't delude myself. Listen, I know we'll probably never be able to salvage more than half the lives of the homeless, seeing that many are mentally ill. Certainly the insane should be in institutions, but hey, that would be cruel and unusual, wouldn't it folks?
Just let them be themselves, no matter how self or outwardly destructive they are. The others we see are those that have given up on life, and the rest, slackers. I think at least the former have some shred of hope, but a pair of shoes ain't gonna do it. And no, the communist mantra of "Each to his ability, each to his need", ain't gonna do it. It doesn't work in Eratosphere, so why would it in the larger society. Gorbachev saw the failure of that belief over the years as he slowly realized that the manufacturing base of the Soviet Union was consistently fabricating inferior products which no one, not even his own citizens, wanted.

John Whitworth 09-22-2012 02:54 AM

Of course a pair of shoes ain't going to do it, Skip. When Saint Martin gave half of his cloak to a beggar he left the man still a beggar. That is the Human Condition eh? What you seem to be saying is that you should never be kind to anyone because your act of kindness won't sort out their life. I suggest you follow the Reverend Sidney Smith. 'Trust in God and take short views.'

I think you are pissed off because a lot of lefty people like this. But consider. Such liking attacks their leftihood. A true leftie, like George Bernard Shaw, a notorious tightwad, leaves all charity to the state.

A man asked me for money in the street. I asked him what he would do with it. 'I won't lie to you, sir. I shall go to that pub over there and drink to you with it.'

I gave him the money. Wouldn't you?

Don Jones 09-22-2012 06:07 AM

A one time act of kindness like that lasts as long as the shoes don't wear out.

Not so. An act of kindness lasts a lifetime in the mind. While you presume to know the inside of people’s minds (read below) I am certain of one thing: the homeless man with new shoes will never forget this act of kindness for as long as he lives. Neither will the do-gooder blond guy. Memory is as important, more important really, than material possession.

As an atheist and materialist I might agree with your opening conclusion, but read or re-read the very end of The Brothers Karamasov where Alyosha, in his “Speech by the Stone,” urges the wayward schoolboys to remember the act of kindness they have demonstrated by visiting the grave of their dead friend. Acts of kindness outlive their practical effects because it is the attention directed by love toward another that lives on via the memory. In fact, the act of kindness at the end of Dostoevsky’s masterpiece has no material effect at all. The friend is dead!

Rather than that, why don't people admit that they would never consider working beside the likes of such a lowlife.


Huh? Presumably, since you seem to know this person, the poor man is unfit for employment so, as your logic seems to imply, we wouldn’t want someone like that in the office or factory or phrontisterion.

Not saying he is [a lowlife], just stating the obvious thoughts that must go through the heads of people who do the easy act of charity.

You are saying he’s a lowlife. Your just wrote it above.

You must be clairvoyant to know and state what obviously goes on in the head of the do-gooder blond guy. But by observing behavior we can glean to a certain reliable extent the contents of a human brain. That said, I do know that a lowlife to you was a human being to the do-gooder. Easy act of charity? If so, then remove thy shoes on the street and give them away.

Else why didn't he go further and invite the guy into his car for a vegan meal in an expensive restaurant, discuss Proust, and find him a position of employment where he works.

A deeply cynical remark. As if the act of kindness on the part of the blond guy was really not at all useful. Yet, as stated above, practicality in an act of kindness is not the point, really.

Why bother to relieve suffering, even a little bit, if we can’t address the entire situation that brought it about? Both the political left and right have failed to heal the world of poverty and destitution but that shouldn’t preclude an act of kindness. Sometimes that’s all we got to give.

I'm no better than the blond guy either, by the way, and probably less giving, but I don't delude myself.


From what I’ve read the blond guy is better than you. Or maybe you’re having a bad day.

Listen, I know we'll probably never be able to salvage more than half the lives of the homeless, seeing that many are mentally ill. Certainly the insane should be in institutions, but hey, that would be cruel and unusual, wouldn't it folks?


If hugging someone who has been kind to you is a sign of insanity then I’m also crazy.

Just let them be themselves, no matter how self or outwardly destructive they are.


The do-gooder bond guy did let the poor man be himself. He wasn’t trying to change him. He expressed an act of love towards him.

The others we see are those that have given up on life, and the rest, slackers. I think at least the former have some shred of hope, but a pair of shoes ain't gonna do it.


We never really know in a catch-all understanding what may lead people to be homeless. There but by the grace of chance and choice go you, or I.

And no, the communist mantra of "Each to his ability, each to his need", ain't gonna do it. It doesn't work in Eratosphere, so why would it in the larger society.

I don’t know what this means. Eratosphere is certainly a product of brute capitalism for positive ends. Alex Pepple, whatever his politics which I don’t presume to know, is an entrepreneurial dude who set this whole thing up. By the way, have you given some money to Eratosphere to keep things running? We are all investors in this website so we should all voluntarily pay up – whether $5,000 or $5. It’s all good money after good.

Gorbachev saw the failure of that belief over the years as he slowly realized that the manufacturing base of the Soviet Union was consistently fabricating inferior products which no one, not even his own citizens, wanted.

This wins the award for greatest non-sequitur to date.

Shaun J. Russell 09-22-2012 06:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skip Dewahl (Post 259800)
A one time act of kindness like that lasts as long as the shoes don't wear out. Rather than that, why don't people admit that they would never consider working beside the likes of such a lowlife. Not saying he is, just stating the obvious thoughts that must go through the heads of people who do the easy act of charity.

You completely miss the point. A random act of kindness goes beyond any ideological leaning, and cuts to the core of humanity. The impulse is deeper than political or religious trappings, which is what makes it all the more precious and sincere. In many, if not most people, there is a deep-rooted desire to help one's fellow man. The problem is that as we grow up, we see very few people doing it first hand, and grow to believe that pure, unadulterated kindness is naive, or a form of weakness. The inner instinct remains, however.

It's downright tragic that many people equate the "easy act of charity" with socialism, or assume that such an act is borne of misplaced ulterior motives. This instance that AZ relates appears to have been sincere: it's not like the guy was trying to impress some girl, or showing off for some campaign camera. It was simply a pure, uncalculated, unquantified moment. Something that folks like Skip will likely never experience.

W.F. Lantry 09-22-2012 09:57 AM

As John points out, there was a similar story on Canadian radio a few nights ago. In this town, we get "As it Happens" every night at 11 on WAMU. I heard it Wednesday evening, and it went up on the web on Thursday. You can listen to it here:

http://www.cbc.ca/asithappens/featur...innipeg-shoes/

Thanks,

Bill

Andrew Mandelbaum 09-22-2012 10:18 AM

Anyone trying to drown hopeful moments, such as the one AZ related here, in anti-socialist garbled rants is an ass-hat. Eventually, if we ever wish to make any progress as a species, we will have to escort the ass-hats outside and sit down to a real dialogue across party lines. But this morning I should like to just appreciate Az's story and ignore the ass-hattery.

Charlotte Innes 09-22-2012 03:11 PM

About the Winnipeg bus driver giving away his shoes.... There are also quite a few other stories on the web about people giving away their shoes. There's even an organization called Soles4Souls.

It appears that there's something significant or profound about giving up your shoes. It really does give someone something they urgently need; and with your own sudden loss of what seems essential to you, you truly feel that need. So different from simply giving money.

At any rate, mainly I just want to say to Don, John, and Shaun, thank you for describing the essence of kindness SO eloquently and beautifully.

We've all heard the catchphrases--"being cruel to be kind," "don’t help those who won’t help themselves," etc.--which come from some refrigerated intellectual space that fails to recognize the messy circumstances of individual lives, especially with regard to the homeless. We need to leave the intellect behind sometimes, and just give.

And thank you Andrew, for the fabulous new word, "ass-hattery." I'm saving that one!

Charlotte

John Whitworth 09-22-2012 06:17 PM

I don't think the story is true. And perhaps the story of Saint Martin is not true. But mine is true.

Skip Dewahl 09-22-2012 07:09 PM

I enjoyed the kumbaya moment, but let me ask you all something. how many of you have rental properties? How many would be willing to lower rents in order to have more of the he-turned-the-bare-feet-into-clad-Lord, moments, but this time with a more lasting effect? Well, if the property taxes keep rising, as the expected Obama victory promises, you won't. Just fleeting ones. You wanna help the poor, give 'em hope by opening up the huge national parks and parcel out acreage to them, which will let them know that you value human life more than carnivorous rovers. Oh hell, just stock up in shoes, folks. Maybe you can hand over your hats, as well, because sometimes the need to go is more immediate than the public toilet.

R. Nemo Hill 09-22-2012 07:45 PM

The real test would be to give you a pair of shoes, Skip, if it ever came to that. That would really test compassion! Still I trust even you might receive a pair in some corner of the universe--though I'd advise shaking (or flushing) them out before you try them on for size, lest you put your stinking foot in it again...since some of the greatest bodhisattvas have been consummate vaudevillians.

Nemo

Shaun J. Russell 09-22-2012 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by R. Nemo Hill (Post 259867)
The real test would be to give you a pair of shoes, Skip, if it ever came to that. That would really test compassion! Still I trust even you might receive a pair in some corner of the universe--though I'd advise shaking (or flushing) them out before you try them on for size, lest you put your stinking foot in it again...since some of the greatest bodhisattvas have been consummate vaudevillians.

Nemo

C'mon Nemo, Skip doesn't need shoes. He already has a place to put his feet: his mouth.

Don Jones 09-22-2012 09:21 PM

Hey Skip!

I have just the thing for you. From my all-time favorite website! Just download the video and enjoy.

Adam Elgar 09-23-2012 03:12 AM

A quiet reminder that this started out as a celebratory thread. There's always plenty to moan about in life. Always, and I do plenty of it. And human beings never lack opportunity to show their gracelessness.
I'm grateful to Alex F for the story.

David Rosenthal 09-23-2012 09:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skip Dewahl (Post 259865)
...which will let them know that you value human life more than carnivorous rovers.

Or we could could value human life and carnivorous rovers more than rental property, or rent, or money, or shoes, or...

David R.

PS -- Thanks for the story Alex. Very touching.

Skip Dewahl 09-23-2012 10:20 AM

I suppose as a non-contributor I should remain silently "graceless", as you put it, perhaps silently grateful that I'm still here, but when I see an elephant in the room that everybody else is ignoring I can't help but point it out. As for the parks and the wild animals, I don't give a damn for the sensitivities of whomever worships them more than human life, and neither do I cringe when anyone threatens to prevent me from respectfully injecting some reality into a thread. I have my limits, and being called graceless is on of them. Go ahead, disappear me and this entry then or leave it there to teach others of what happens to those who don't adhere moderately enough to the leftist board policies. Make up some excuse such as the one Senior Tenured did when he accused me of being a troll the first week of my membership, or, as I mentioned at the opening, my lack of translations. But I suppose the prime directive (ah yes, the movie, Network, a la Ned Beatty) of not confronting the authority of the Mod Squad will do. Fire away, baby.

Roger Slater 09-23-2012 11:19 AM

Alex's story is certainly not "leftest" by any stretch of the imagination. Indeed, I suspect that it would have broad bi-partisan support throughout America and that Mitt Romney would do his best to feign a tear while telling it himself. If one is intent on bending over backwards to find a political message in every anecdote ever told, then I suppose one might imagine a leftist objecting to the story as endorsing American/British colonialism, with the fair-haired colonialist engaging in a petty act of noblesse oblige by giving a downtrodden native a taste of indulgent Western footware. That would be silly, of course. Whatever your politics, it's hard to imagine anyone could actually find a private act of kindness and charity offensive.

But Alex did not ask us to draw political morals or to generalize, and he did not make the story up to illustrate a point. He was simply doing what people do from time to time, i.e, sharing a story of something he observed that he found striking and of possible interest to others. It didn't involve government or politics or mandates or business or anything of the kind. It was just a story of someone doing something nice. Perhaps the only sad aspect of the story is that it was considered unusual enough to warrant sharing. And the title Alex gave the thread indicates his basic default expectation that people generally aren't like this, an observation that ought to redeem things for Skip.

Pedro Poitevin 09-23-2012 12:51 PM

When I was training the Guatemalan national Olympic mathematics team, there was a kid whose mother woke up every Saturday morning at 2am so she and her son could ride a bus (departing from their little village in the middle of nowhere at 3am, and arriving in the capital city at 6am) and attend the training sessions. Sometimes they wouldn't bring anything for lunch except fruit. (The kid was very good at mathematics, though, of course, he hadn't had the opportunities for nurturing his talent that other kids in the group had had.) Years after leaving the country, I don't know exactly what became of him—I'm sure he isn't a mathematician (I have a way to know) and that the poverty that struck his family is still a staggering problem in his community. I also know that there are many other kids like him. It certainly isn't hard to imagine circumstances that might have caused his life to go downhill—a minor blow, and a kid whose mother makes enormous sacrifices to get him ahead can see his fate radically change direction. This is why the presumption that the homeless are necessarily mentally ill or else slackers offends me. It betrays an embarrassing lack of intellectual rigor, true, but it also betrays kids.

Pedro.

Skip Dewahl 09-23-2012 01:56 PM

Listen, Pedro, next time read my whole post, especially the part where I mention "those that have given up on life" and actually "live" on the "streets". They still have the chance for a better life. I said nothing about people who still have a shelter, but I did suggest that were rents lower there wouldn't be so many homeless. It is easy to wax eloquent with "splendid insincerities", as H. G. Wells once observed in his Outline of History regarding the Roman philosophers. One can imagine such a learned person being charitable, as well, saying this to a roadside beggar, "There, my good man, take this cup of wine from Bacchus that it may bring you good fortune", and getting into his litter, all the while worrying that the slaves don't have his meal prepared yet.

Duncan Gillies MacLaurin 09-23-2012 01:56 PM

In Amit Majmudar's poem, "Professor Librescu", human kindness is depicted without any cloying sentimentality.

Duncan

Michael Cantor 09-23-2012 02:16 PM

Wow! Incredible poem. And yes, the back story involves a massive act of kindness - saving the lives of others - without any sentimentality. Thanks for posting, Duncan. Thanks for writing it. Amit. Thanks for your selflessness, Professor Librescu.

Pedro Poitevin 09-23-2012 02:44 PM

Wonderful poem!

Pedro.

David Anthony 09-23-2012 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AZ Foreman (Post 259680)
I was sitting in a shisha-shop in one of the lower-middle class neighborhoods of Alexandria today, and saw a blonde (and I think British) westerner (tourist?) walk past a homeless guy sitting on the street. On seeing that the homeless guy was barefoot, said European guy took the Nikes off of his own two feet and handed them to the homeless guy. The homeless guy tried to refuse, but the blonde dude pressed them into his grasp and said, in broken Arabic, انا لا محتاج. انت اكثر محتاج "I not need. You needing more" walked away. The homeless guy put the shoes on and ran over to blonde dude and hugged him. Blonde dude hugged him back, and walked away.
The homeless guy was crying, and so was I.

Seems an odd thing to do. How would he know the shoes would fit, and how is a homeless guy going to get away with wearing Nikes in a poor part of Alexandria? Better to give him money, I'd have thought.
When you say 'blonde', is there some particular implication?

Michael Cantor 09-23-2012 03:51 PM

Good point, David. But if you give the homeless guy money, instead, there's still a problem of his being robbed in that poor neighborhood as soon as he tries to use it to buy anything. Possibly something safer could be arranged through PayPal that would also eliminate the need for all that hugging and touching.

Alternately, he could wear the sneakers, and use them to walk to a better part of Alexandria, and he would still be homeless, but upscale homeless, the streets would be flooded with welcoming security guards so there would be no need to worry about anything being stolen, and people could give him more useful articles of clothing - dress shoes, a good shirt, a necktie - without fear.

Jayne Osborn 09-23-2012 04:40 PM

The homeless guy put the shoes on...

...so they obviously 'fitted' him (well enough, anyway). They may have been a half- or even a size too big, but hey! who'd mind that, compared to walking around shoeless?

If the homeless man's feet had been too big for the shoes I reckon the outcome would have been the same: he'd still have run after the 'blond dude' and given him a hug of gratitude, but insisting that he keep his shoes. Then the blond guy would probably have proffered money instead, but what he did in the first instance was a spontaneous gesture - and they are definitely the best kind of all!

Jayne

John Riley 09-23-2012 04:42 PM

My office building is around the corner from the homeless shelter. I've met a few of the men when they were trying to get clean. I never give them money. I'm not buying their wine or dope. If they say they're hungry I'll suggest we walk around the corner to the McDonalds and I'll buy them some food. Sometimes they take me up on it, sometimes they don't.

I'm one of those bleeding heart hypocrites who is willing to buy an occasional Big Mac to make myself feel warm and fuzzy, without regard for the societal damage I'm causing.


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:33 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.