I hesitate to stir the nest...
 

I hesitate to disturb the nest… We’ve done so well of late at holding our political tongues here on the General Board.

All I want to do with this thread is focus on/expose Trump’s lack of ability to express himself using the spoken word – something he declared he was “the best” at doing:

https://youtu.be/0T-Eo0j092Q

And something that we know something about, presumably, here on the Sphere.

I am continually flummoxed by the incredibly poor quality of his messages – not the message content – the grammatical construction of the message. And he has a team of linguists and writers at his disposal! I’m talking specifically about sentence construction and word choice – nothing else. It’s appalling. Made all the more appalling by the fact that he doesn’t seem to be aware that we’re aware that he is not aware that he is verbally, pathetically ill-equipped to represent the office he holds based on his use of language alone.

Here's a miniscule example:
(From his tax reform speech) “…A tax bill that will give middle class taxpayers finally, finally, finally and want to deserve.” W.T.F?

Yeah, that could certainly be an indication that he's just mentally gone. Which I think he is. (I'm amazed at how many commentators, liberal and conservative, attribute his behavior to some overall strategy. They, along with anyone associated with that thing, should never be taken seriously again. Actually, if you voted for Trump, you should lose your voting rights for at least 10 years.) I was as likely to get slapped for saying "ain't" as a swear word (I think there's a class thing going on there)... I digress, as usual. I guess I want to say that I could handle a good illiterate person as president. Someone who couldn't put a sentence together, but who was responsible and had the very human characteristic of empathy.

This thread may be doomed because who want's to dig through Trump's tweets, speeches, declarations, etc. and extract examples of his pathetic command of the English language?

Two days ago he was giving a press conference with the prime minister (whom he repeatedly called Mr. President – not a big deal, but seriously…) of Spain at the WH:

On North Korea: “…And we're replying to those things, but it's a reply. It's not an original statement; it's a reply.” WTF?

In reference to the split between Spain and Catalonia: “…Because you're talking about staying with a truly great, beautiful, and very historic country.” WTF?

These two examples pale in comparison to others. I just can't put my fingers on them at the moment. It’s impossible to document all his grammatical gaffes. That’s my point. It’s as if we have Mr. Bean for a president. (Clearly Trump is far worse than Mr. Bean, but you get what I mean). I guess the bottom line is that it's a reflection of his insipid understanding of the issues we're facing.

For me it’s come down to being nearlyunable to listen to his voice. He is no doubt in over his head. I think that fact exacerbates his poor command of the language.
To your point about preferring a president good with actions to one who is good with words, leadership is a combination of both. If you don’t have command of the language, use your writers and anything else at your disposal. But he doesn’t think he needs that kind of help. Thank God for that. Having the façade of good speech writers to hide behind would make it more difficult to expose him. And even when he does he goes off script/over the cliff.

Anyway. He’s a pariah to me.

I think the Namibian head of state was standing nearby when DT twice referred to his country as Nambia. That is a quick way to demonstrate utter lack of interest. This sort of thing he does routinely: he got the Australian PM's name wrong while on the phone with him, the press reported.
All this does no favors to our State Department. But the only thing DT wants to build, as far as I can tell, is a big beautiful wall.

Cheers,
John

I don't think you need to dig. Don't want to hijack the thread, but he's a very real danger. But I don't think his English ability much enters into it, if that makes sense.

I have faith that, when the time comes, if it comes (it's possible that he will sustain so much damage from all quarters that he could just limp along, languishing in failures, ostracized, a failed dotard president, until the end of his term. I have a dream.) that we the people will oust him through the back door of the Constitution.

In this thread I'm more interested in his inability to speak in complete sentences. There are so many other flaws (yes I'm being polite) we could identify and I think we've done that in previous threads.

So all I wanted to do was crit his grammar. It's gotten that bad in my head. : )

Oh come. If we are to be taken to task for the grammatical construction of what we say, then who shall scape whipping?

No a nice man, but then Presidents rarely are. Post war only Truman and Reagan I would think.

How many of us know where Nambia (sic) actually is?

I spent a week in Namibia. It's one of the most delightful places I've been.

The problem is that Trump in the 80s would have scaped whipping. There is a strong likelihood that the current condition of his speech is an indication of dementia. I have every sympathy for people in that condition, but I don't want them leading America.

Mary: I spent a week in Namibia. It's one of the most delightful places I've been.

Yes, but John asks where is Nambia? Perhaps past the second star to the right?

Cheers,
John

At first I thought the questioning of his mental health was unwise, a way to excuse a wretched heart, but now I think he's both terrible and mentally compromised. Here he is on the healthcare bill. BTW, there is no senator in the hospital and if there were it wouldn't affect the vote:

“The health-care bill didn't go down. We have the votes, but reconciliation is a disaster. But as you know, it ends on Friday. So we don't have enough time, because we have one senator who's a 'yes' vote — a great person, but he's in the hospital. And he's a 'yes' vote. So we can't do it by Friday. So we have the votes.”

“We have the votes to get it done. You can't do it when somebody is in the hospital.”

“I just wanted to say, though, on health care, we have the votes for health care. We have one senator that's in the hospital. He can't vote because he's in the hospital. He can't vote because he's in the hospital. We have two other votes that are coming and we will have them, but the problem is we can't have them by Friday because of reconciliation ends on Friday, so we'll have to do it in January or February. But I feel we have the votes; I'm almost certain we have the votes. But with one man in the hospital, we cannot display that we have them. Plus, some people want to go through a process just to make themselves feel better. That's okay.”

“But on health care, we have the votes, we can't do it now because we have somebody in a hospital and we have great respect for that gentleman, by the way, he's a fantastic man. He was a yes, that's right.”

“He can't come here and vote. In other words, he can't come here and vote because he's in the hospital. So here's the story. Wait, wait, yes, in the hospital. So we're going to do it in January or February because, as you know, we have the votes but can't go longer than Friday.”

“You know, we're only one off, maybe two, but we can't vote now, John — you probably didn't hear me — because as you know, one of our yes votes is in hospital. I can't take him out of the hospital.”

I made myself a rule never to get involved in political discussions here - and I'm a Brit anyway, so I can't even name many US politicians - but I've broken my rule today.

Jim's YouTube link in the opening post on this thread made me laugh; it's highly entertaining and I enjoyed it, ...but then the reality kicks in when you read what Walter just posted above, or similar Trump nonsense.

That is seriously worrying, and not funny or entertaining at all. If I heard a friend or a member of my family repeating gibberish like that over and over, I wouldn't be in much doubt that they had mental health problems.

Heaven help us :eek:

Jayne

Walter, I haven't looked at the transcript, but this is almost like a rendition of a Gertrude Stein poem from Tender Buttons that's so bad it's almost good.

There was a little book that came out of Rumsfeld quotes laid out as free verse.

Cheers,
John

Andrew, what's most remarkable about the quotes you've served up isn't the tortured syntax, but the fact that no senator was actually in the hospital.

That thing was hysterical. I highly recommend it.

Jennifer

Now play this video of a general in the Airforce academy dealing with racial slurs from cadets yesterday. The drop-off from this speech, that is simply showing just the basic levels of human decency, to the present White House communications (with or without the stammering gibbon) is sobering.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WfjZ1otkS3o

John W. --"Oh come. If we are to be taken to task for the grammatical construction of what we say, then who shall scape whipping?"


"We "? It astounds me that you see it that way. You, a highly regarded poetic communicator. You, who demands high quality from your peers here on the sphere. You, who understands like few others the importance, meaning and power of words. I'm really flabbergasted.

Your specious argument that "no one is perfect" when the leader of the free world fails more often than succeeds in being grammatically correct and therefore dangerously (yes dangerously) incoherent astonishes me.
You skills as a poet are impressive, but your political views are jaundiced.

You can defend his politics all you want, but this thread is focusing on his ability as president of the U.S. to formulate language that effectively communicates and helps us navigate through some pretty difficult times. Do you really take so lightly the ability of someone in his position to speak and think clearly?

Btw, Jimmy Carter was (is) a "nice", good, honest man who could speak in coherent sentences.
Gerald Ford, for that matter, was, too. (He just had trouble putting one foot in front of the other).

Walter, your excerpt from his recent words on the healthcare vote are, horrifyingly, just a typical -- not extraordinary - example of what comes out of his mind/mouth every day.

Andrew M: "The drop-off from this speech, that is simply showing just the basic levels of human decency, to the present White House communications."

That is it exactly. The only reason why I still entertain a glimmer of hope that things will be salvaged is contained within this video clip of the air force general. That's the way you communicate.

-------

Coming back just to say that, in the speech by the air force general, the most powerful moment in it was when he said, "keep these words". Magnificent.

Thanks, Andrew, for posting that speech by General Silveria. When you hear our corrupt and idiotic President, and many of the individuals with whom he has surrounded himself, it's good to realize that there are still some decent and articulate people in positions of responsibility. I never, ever thought I'd say this in a political context - but thank God for the Armed Forces.

Yes, Andrew, thanks for that although it will always make me nervous when the generals are the only thoughtful, sensible people in Washington. When this charade comes crashing down, and every fairy tale or bible story or stories from the old religions, hell, every Star Trek episode, has taught me that it will come crashing down, it makes me nervous that the military will begin to seem to many of the people propping this fool up to be the only solution. It's what Madison feared most.

Consider his remarkable discovery that Puerto Rico is an island, and it's in the middle of an ocean. A really, really big ocean.

(As distinct from all the small oceans cluttering the planet).

Grammatical, but totally stupid.

"Grammatical, but totally stupid."

Actually it is the Carribbean Sea that surrounds it -- not the really, really big Atlantic Ocean.

He often speaks in incomplete sentences. Often will start a sentence about one thing and then, mid-sentence, add into it information about something unrelated.

He is overwhelmed by the job, hounded by his own lies, tormented by his failings, utterly unable to display empathy, only able to act in self-interest.

Hi Jim. I agree with pretty much everything you say, except "tormented by his failings". I do think DT has a 'uge chip on his shoulder, but as to feeling actual regret, remorse, guilt, shame - emotions in that spectrum - I don't think he has that capacity. If only!

Cheers,
John

Update: now he might be starting to feel like a cornered animal, which is when survival instincts kick in. That's how I read his NFL attack, for instance. But that's fear, and maybe anger, and nothing more glamorous.

"The loss of life, it's always tragic. But it's been incredible. The results that we've had with respect to loss of life."

Want to know more about how Trump feels about loss of life? Watch this.

Last night I watched the Mayor of San Juan cut through all the bullshit and issue an anguished call for help, and this morning our demented President is tweeting from his golf course and attacking her.

Your post says so much, Roger. He's a coward as well as a fool.

Roger, thank you for shedding light on that aspect of his depraved personality. The interview you posted should be required viewing for all.

And thanks, John, for calling into question my assumption that he might have anything resembling a conscience. I stand sadly corrected.

The tweets this morning that attack the beleaguered mayor of PR are morally reprehensible.

Also, the quote Roger posted:

"The loss of life, it's always tragic. But it's been incredible. The results that we've had with respect to loss of life."

Is an example of just how convoluted a frame of mind he is now in. His language is a dark mirror of his mind .

Here are a couple of other random things he's said:

"When I did this now I said, I probably, maybe will confuse people, maybe I’ll expand that, you know, lengthen the time because it should be over with, in my opinion, should have been over with a long time ago.”

“From the time I took office till now, you know, it’s a very exact thing. It’s not like generalities.”

From Politico.com

President Donald Trump on Sunday seemed to undercut his own secretary of state and and escalate the ongoing nuclear crisis with North Korea, tweeting that Rex Tillerson's efforts to negotiate with Kim Jong Un's regime were essentially useless.

"I told Rex Tillerson, our wonderful Secretary of State, that he is wasting his time trying to negotiate with Little Rocket Man...," Trump tweeted, adding, "...Save your energy Rex, we'll do what has to be done!"

The president's remarks seemed to defy a cardinal rule of international diplomacy — maintaining a unified front amid ongoing diplomatic efforts — and came even before Tillerson returned from a trip to China.

Who the hell is "we'll", as in "we'll do what has to be done." I have no idea what prompted this, but possibly it's an attempt to focus attention away from his insulting attacks on Puerto Rico - which were launched to focus attention away from Price's firing - which....

Will Tillerson quit? More importantly, will Congress realize that Trump is a very sick puppy - and getting nuttier as tensions mount - and finally get serious about impeachment?

Michael, who knows in a world gone mad. It may depend on how successful they are in their new attempt to plunder the poor and the middle class. If they fail to pass what is sarcastically called "tax reform" the GOP may try to salvage their existence as a political party and toss him to the sharks.

And alternatively, if they pass it they may have no further use for him and prefer the known quantity of Mike Pence. Who knows?

"President Trump has all the best words and uses them in the best ordure." Sikhspak Chapra, "Evacuation Plans for the Flatulent"

The memes of Sikhspak Chapra can be found on Facebook:

https://www.facebook.com/sikhspak/?ref=bookmarks

I like this guy Chapra. Thanks for sharing. All is for given.

I'm swerving from the president's usage of grammar for now and focusing on his ability to put both of his feet in his mouth every time he opens it. For the most recent examples look no further than yesterday's debacle in Puerto Rico:

"I hate to tell you, Puerto Rico, but you've thrown our budget a little out of whack, because we've spent a lot of money on Puerto Rico,"

"Every death is a horror, but if you look at a real catastrophe like Katrina, and you look at the tremendous — hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of people that died, and you look at what happened here with really a storm that was just totally overpowering ... and what is your death count?"

“16 certified, sir”

"Sixteen people versus in the thousands. You can be very proud."


Of course, as I speak there may be more feet going into his mouth via twitter. Most certainly his mouth will be full of feet in Las Vegas later today.