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-   -   Mueller (https://www.ablemuse.com/erato/showthread.php?t=31144)

James Brancheau 07-26-2019 04:14 PM

Mueller
 
So, Mueller's testimony. He didn't seem to know his own case. And a fairly important case. And I just can't agree that it's unfair to accuse when you can't prosecute. Especially when congress can move to impeach. Utter nonsense. I think, the way things will unroll, not a good legacy for him. Obstruction is a given, and though conspiracy is harder to prove, it's right on the doorstep.

Jim Moonan 07-28-2019 05:44 AM

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James: I just can't agree that it's unfair to accuse when you can't prosecute. Especially when congress can move to impeach. Utter nonsense.

I agree entirely. Mueller could have made it easier for the wheels to turn with his testimony. No more tight lips, Bobby 3-Sticks. I suggest he write an op-ed and get it all out in the open.
Btw, how in the world did a law get put into place that says sitting presidents cannot be indicted for their actions while in office? Seriously? Above the law? Trump's favorite place to be: sitting pretty above the law.
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James Brancheau 07-28-2019 11:38 AM

Went on quite a rant with the original post, so this is the heavily redacted version. Yeah, frustrating right? This isn't going after someone on some distant or irrelevant charge for purely political reasons. It's serious stuff, like, um, national security. And this buffoon could most likely be impeached for any number of reasons anyway. I don't think you have to cross the t's and dot the i's here. It's almost become too ridiculous to endure.

Allen Tice 07-28-2019 01:59 PM

Unless I’ve miscounted my beans, there is no law, as such, against indicting a sitting pepsodent, umm. It’s a Dept. of Justice policy, and on the whole not all bad. The policy provides a degree of stability even in this day of divided demagogic impulses. There is a well-known route to resolving evidence of major criminality: successful impeachment. I’m more concerned about wasting natural resources and raping the environment to fuel global warming than repugnant sexual activity. Stand back and think about the world one’s descendants must endure. For those lacking descendants, think and consider the world one might be reincarnated into. Reincarnation is just futilely kicking the can down the road for me, but that’s another discussion. Pull up your socks, it’s a DOJ policy not to indict even a polarizing president, and consider the alternative: snap decisions based on inflamed passions of the sort that destroyed Athens and seriously wounded most participating European countries in World War One. A single step at a time. Hasten slowly.

James Brancheau 07-28-2019 02:48 PM

I thought only Democrats had sex. Socialists more, and communists it's just one constant orgy. Trump, rapists, obviously don't factor into it. Well, Allen, consider saving the environment a perk. There's a lot of bad stuff going on behind those tweets.

* I should note that "repugnant" wasn't specific enough for me. (Sex can be consensually repugnant. Just saying.)

Allen Tice 07-28-2019 03:21 PM

Am I now recently having, or have I ever had or desired recently or not, molecular congress with a different human mammal? I take the Sixty-Fifth Amendment to the US Constitution, and decline to answer in the negative. On a burnt up planet, perks are meaningless.

Periscope down, please. Make a course for the Souda, Crete.

James Brancheau 07-28-2019 03:40 PM

Well, I agree. But that's where we are now. And before the planet burns up, women will lose their reproductive rights, the divide between the haves and nots will grow ever wider, proper health care will only be for the privileged, and popular music will continue to get worse.

Jim Moonan 07-28-2019 04:49 PM

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James, I thought you were engaging in a bit of Trumpian hyperbole until I got to "and popular music will continue to get worse." Can you imagine such a world?

Allen, Ok, the DOJ policy not to indict a sitting president serves a good purpose. But the route left open to pursue accountability requires a fair degree of bipartisan support --not going to happen.
Trump's divisive, litigious nature combined with his other "character flaws" have effectively made that process out of reach. Nixon never had it so good. To impeach would require a functioning governing body. Here's something to sleep on: walk through the front door of the WH (it's open) follow the map available inside the door to the spot marked by an oval, and slap the tiny handcuffs on the mob boss masquerading as a plumber hired to drain the swamp. When you wake up, circle 11/3/20 on your calendar and stay vigilant. They all fall down.

As for the testimony, Mueller has called a spade a club -- in pig latin no less. Yes, hasten, slowly. To the voting booth. That's the escalator back up.
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John Isbell 07-28-2019 05:51 PM

Well. My own take is that Mueller was hamstrung by his own perhaps exaggerated sense of propriety, but also, and quite importantly, by the DOJ's ongoing sabotaging of his ability to function. The DOJ (Barr) has put quite a bit of work into this ,and that work should not be underestimated. It's all well and good wishing for a different Mueller than the Boy Scout we have, but anyone else would have been demolished before now by the assault he has withstood. We can't have it both ways.
Yes, it would be nice to indict Trump. And I feel personally that this would be right. But Mueller has been determined to be the good solider and, I think, not be Comey. He has walked a thin line. I am not going to snipe at him from the sidelines in consequence. He's made it quite clear that Trump, to his mind, is entirely fair game for prison after his term ends. The nation has a job to do as well, in 2020. I think Mueller has faith that job can be done, and that has helped to keep him going.

Cheers,
John

Jim Moonan 07-28-2019 06:09 PM

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I should not have complained about RM. You're right, John. Frustration.
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John Isbell 07-28-2019 06:22 PM

:-)
I think it's easy to want what I for one see as a nightmare to end.

Cheers,
John

A. Sterling 07-29-2019 08:01 PM

The other day, I was looking on the website of an indy bookstore – in a certain disgusting rat and rodent-infested city in which no human being would want to live, apparently—and noticed they had a list of their bestsellers posted. Number one was the Mueller report. I notice it’s pretty high on Amazon’s list, too, which suggests it’s not just a local thing. And, in case you were wondering, this was before the aforementioned rodent comments. Baltimore is a city where people express their civic pride by putting bumper stickers on their cars with the letters BALT affectionately enclosed within the silhouette of a rat, and so Mr. Trump is definitely kicking a hornet’s nest here. And kicking it, and kicking it….

But yeah, we’re in an interesting position here – so near D.C. that I doubt anybody is more than a couple degrees of connection away from one of the participants in the latest drama while, at the same time, we don’t have a first-hand view of the forces that brought Trump into office. But it sounds as if it may not be so different in other places.

James Brancheau 07-31-2019 01:07 PM

Well, A., Trump has always been a racist (I heard his father was active in, um, official racism). Because he can't control himself, now they're just trying to figure out how to use that for political gain. Seriously. While republicans stay silent or just call everyone a communist (which is such a ridiculous throwback-- really, you can't write this stuff).

John Isbell 07-31-2019 08:14 PM

Well, everyone's a communist but the former KGB agent they're so fond of.

Cheers,
John

James Brancheau 08-01-2019 08:24 AM

Hahaha, yeah, John, whatever's convenient. Not that I was ever a fan of that party, but they've become so nakedly unprincipled and corrupt.

A. Sterling 08-01-2019 10:03 AM

Yeah, ‘out-of-control’ seems like the right word here. It boggles the mind to think about what controversies we’ll be discussing even a month from now.

Quote:

Originally Posted by James Brancheau (Post 440120)
Seriously. While republicans stay silent or just call everyone a communist (which is such a ridiculous throwback-- really, you can't write this stuff).

Oh, they’re doing that now, are they? I guess the stigma of being called a socialist must have worn off. Interesting. If I were a communist, I'd be feeling a bit pleased about that.

John Isbell 08-01-2019 10:07 AM

Actually I think the right finds the term socialist unendingly useful in blurring the lines between, say, Castro and Maduro and Denmark. They’re not averse to throwing Hitler in the mix for good measure. Not Putin though. Or Kim Jong Un for that matter.

Cheers,
John

NB they is vague. Let’s say prominent people on the American right.

James Brancheau 08-01-2019 11:24 AM

I'd be willing to bet that over 60% of Americans couldn't tell you the difference between communism and socialism. Among republicans, that's gotta be pushing 80%.

John Isbell 08-01-2019 12:04 PM

Now that is the trace of decades of successful propaganda. Agitprop, if you will.

Cheers,
John


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