Poetry Has Ruined The Navy
 

Tommy Tuberville knows what is destroying the military. It isn’t holding up promotions and pay raises for men and women who deserve them. It’s poetry.


https://newrepublic.com/maz/post/175...-reading-poems

I didn't read the article, John. I will later, as much as I don't want to. Biden is tied with Trump according to polling. Or Trump is one point ahead, according to some polls. I have no words for this. Except. I left the states in part because I couldn't deal with Bush jr and the bullshit back then. There were other issues, but I had trouble not getting into (often very aggressive) arguments. I think a good portion of Americans are willfully stupid. And another portion is actually stupid. Quietly, Biden has done quite a bit. Quietly, perhaps, is the problem. I'm not a flag waving fan, but, as Maher said, I'd rather Biden's brain be floating in a jar as president than Trump being elected again.

This guy is holding up military promotions and pay raises because of some made-up abortion bs.

I wish I had left this place decades ago. Now my son is a Navy SEAL, which is almost more than I can think about. He's willing to do what he does for a country that may elect Trump again. If we'd left maybe he would have made a different decision.

The current move toward irrational, self-destructive politics isn't contained in the U.S. I think, this isn't original with me, that it is because of the widening gap between the few elite soon-to-be trillionaires and the vast majority of people who live in financial anxiety. As the gap grows and the anxiety increases it gets crazier and crazier. Marx may have said religion is the opiate of the people, but it is now the methamphetamine. The nature of most of the other madness is no more divorced from reality than the Book of Mormon or Hindu nationalism or any other religious fanaticism. This diverts attention. It's obvious. It is no coincidence that the figures most responsible for the madness that will eventually consume us all if it isn't stopped are billionaires such as Murdoch and now Elon Musk, who has now, true to form, gone anti-Semitic. When people's lives were less economically stressed there was more room for sanity. People are going nuts. And yes, their poor economic decisions add to the stress, but when you live in a society that values the car you drive to the extent you're willing to borrow all the equity in your home to buy an $80,000.00 pickup truck, how much can you blame people who are constantly bombarded with marketing? IMO, the 20th-century American writer who had the keenest eye on the suicide created by marketing and status was Philip K. Dick.

Sorry about the tirade. I'm no scholar but I have read and studied enough history and read enough literature to know when the world is marching toward disaster. I guess I sound nuts but if so explain to me why this isn't like the twenty years leading up to WWI? And no, not specifics but in the increasing derangement, or Europe before 1789. Check out the link below regarding the "Thucydides Trap" in the context of U.S.-China relations.

https://www.belfercenter.org/thucydi...hucydides-trap

You don't need to be a scholar, John. I've written this before here, so I'll try to make it briefer. My father was a firefighter making firefighter money, middle class money, in the late 70s. My mother did not work at that time. We had a house, two cars (bought new, both of them), my brother and I went to a private (fairly crazy) catholic school, and we took a couple week family vacation every year. On one firefighter's salary.

*I'll just leave it at what I wrote above.

John, poetry is alive and well in the Royal Navy based on my experience. I previously alluded to Burns' Night readings on a submarine for example. That wasn't my idea, it's just part of their tradition. They don't seem to care that they don't understand the poems either.

History doesn't repeat but it does rhyme as they say.. I'm not convinced that these fringe politicians who are deliberatly trying to wind you up actually hold much power at the top level. It's just a sideshow at the circus. But when you get angry and pit yourself against the other side then that's what they want because it serves their agenda. I'd just ignore.

Alabama must be a safe seat but I can't see this guy being taken seriously far beyond that state and others at the extremes of Christian fundamentalism.

.
World events do seem to be rhyming Yeats' Second Coming followed closely by Eliot's The Waste Land. Pity that I can't think of the bookend poem of the world coming out on the other side better off. Only Ginsberg's Howl...

Politics aside: we will write poetry as long as there is consciousness.

.

Michael, Tuberville isn't a fringe politician. That's the problem.

I mentioned Murdoch and Musk and other billionaires, the Koch family, as being responsible for the madness. It's obvious the politicians are their bitches.

I hear the "don't worry yourself about politics and the state of the world" all the time. It's faux wisdom. Socrates was a relatively wise man and look what politics did to him.

That's correct, John. That is the problem.

I think that's wise when it comes to a lot of online discussion. But not where it involves our elected representatives.

Tuberville is a U.S. senator exercising his power to disrupt the military's smooth functioning. The military, as evidenced by Navy Secretary Del Toro's comments, sees this as a serious problem.

Because, as you point out, Alabama is safe Republican territory, this is a problem the Republicans have to solve, by pressuring Tuberville to stop, or by primarying him out of office. The rest of us can encourage the Republicans to take their responsibility seriously by making sure voters (especially swing-state and Alabama voters) recognize this anti-military Republican stance.

John, I didn't say "don't worry yourself about politics and the state of the world". I said that the views of one right winger who is playing to a limited audience is not going to have much sway at the top table. The Republican party are not going to fight against the interests of the military at the next election. That's a guaranteed loser.

One politician on his own can't take on the military. It looks to me like a publicity stunt or are you saying the senate need to unanimously approve pay increases or, in other words, one senator can stop the law? If so then that sounds constitutionally crazy. Nothing would ever get agreed.

In the UK, there are parts of the country where crazy right wingers get into power but it only becomes an issue if they find their way into cabinet positions. Is Tuberville realistically going to get a high ranking brief if the Republicans get in next time? He looks like a bit of a liability to me.

Yes, it's crazy. But that's the way it is. Tuberville alone has the power to hold up the promotions, and that's what he's doing. If he didn't have that power but was only bluffing or posturing, we wouldn't be talking about him so much.

It's NOT a limited audience, Michael. When I first commented I didn't even read the article (which turned out to be a one minute read, so I might as well have). Look, the Republican party is no longer functioning as a political party. That would require a belief in democracy.

Michael, he is not "taking on" the military. The military is just being used as a hostage. His issue is abortion (he's against it) and he is hoping to extract concessions on that issue by using leverage he gets through is ability to holdup military promotions.

I had to go to ABC to get an explanation:

If there's an impact on military readiness then why can't the majority party pass emergency legislation to remove these barriers?

I understand that abortion is a big issue in America but it shouldn't be allowed to interfere with other areas of politics related to national security.

Tuberville is playing the system and the system should be designed so that it can be continuously improved to remove these kind of unintended consequences.

And, as I've already said. He's making himself unpopular and giving the opposing party an easy line of attack.

Yeah, this is the only way Republicans know how to get anything done anymore, Roger. Imaginary issues, gerrymandering and voter suppression. And outright fraud. They have lost support from women and independents. It's no wonder they want to limit what students read.

Sorry, John, I know I'm not addressing this specific thing. But I cannot separate this from everything else that's going on.

The article reports that he said his playing politics and disrupting the military because of a side issue in order to raise money and to increase his name recognition in the right-wing media isn't what is damaging the military. A much more destructive problem is that he's heard some ships have had poetry read over the intercom during the morning calls.

Tuberville said on Fox News: “Secretary Del Toro of the Navy, he needs to get to building ships, he needs to get to recruiting, and he needs to get wokeness out of our Navy,”

“We’ve got people doing poems on aircraft carriers over the loudspeaker. It is absolutely insane the direction that we’re headed in our military, and we’re headed downhill, not uphill."

He has got a point about the Navy needing more ships and recruits but I don't see how removing "wokeness" would solve that problem. Surely most people of an average IQ can see that? I guess the MAGA Republicans in safe seats feel that they can get away with saying outrageous things like this to get noticed and score points with Trump so that's why they do it.

If this is the best they can come up with I'm not worried for you.

Slap and Dash!
 

Little Tommy Tuberville

Just remembered, no self-created trash here.

Well, underestimation is one of the biggest difficulties we have going for us in this country. It, more than any other factor, is what won Trump the election in 2016, and it's the surest path to him winning again. I'll never forget Chuck Todd on election night, 2016, adamant that the numbers would turn around, incredulous that what was happening was happening. Vigilance is absolutely vital, and we can't take anything for granted, no matter how nonsensical it must seem.

In truth, it's almost impossible to explain what the political situation is like within the U.S. to those outside of it. I learned this several years ago when talking with my parents - a Canadian and New Zealander, both living in Canada. There's just no way to express the feeling of a handcart careening downhill, pushed by a group of reckless idiots, with other reckless idiots batting more sensible hands away from the handbrake. It defies logic, reason, sense, and even self-preservation, and yet... And yet.

The Tuberville holds are just a small, but significant subset of the greater issue. Our system is suffused with it right now. Send help.

I love what you said Shaun. It seems a little cracked in GB but here it is combustible. You’re right if you don’t live here you can’t feel the coming apart. The world better open their eyes.

.
The facetiousness of the thread title is a bit off-putting but I understand your frustration. The effects of the gangrene caused by Trump has become protracted and will not be easy to to eradicate.

I wonder what TT would think of hearing the poem, "The Times, They Are A'Changin'" blaring from the loud speakers of the USS John McCain?


(Btw, Tommy Tuberville looks like the principal in Ferris Bueller's Day Off. Where is Ferris Bueller when you need him?)

.

MAGA Republicanism has its roots and ties with Brexit. The Brexit leave vote came first in 2016. Trumps people watched and learned from that win. He invited some of the Brexit campaign people over as consultants for his campaign and paraded Nigel Farage on rallies.

So, we have been sending help Shaun but not the kind you would wish for...

John, we're living with the consequences of Brexit here and we will be for decades regardless of changes of government. Labour accepts there's no way back into the EU. So when you dismiss GB's problems in comparison to those in the US, actually our acts of political self harm have been permanent whereas, it remains to be seen, but let's hope yours can be healed.

No, not in the slightest. Honestly, I don't know where that idea even comes from. There's been a slow slide into MAGA Republicanism since GWB era -- that's when the Tea Party influence took hold, and was emboldened by McCain's choice of Sarah Palin as his running mate...which was considered a fatal mistake at the time, but also demonstrated the popularity of those fact-free, hype-driven ideas. It bubbled and seethed during Obama's terms, and only boiled over in 2016. One could argue that the core MAGA ideas are even stronger now than ever, though my hope is that enough people have weaned off the teat of extremism that there won't be a majority voting for the almost-certainly-MAGA-esque candidate (which will almost certainly be Trump). But that's just my hope, and in the end, the electoral college isn't about majorities, so...we shall see.

If anything, Brexit was inspired by MAGA, though I suspect they come from a shared wellspring of bigotry and stupidity.

.
Wild thought without much consideration given to it, but worth mentioning in this storm-tossed sea of troubles: By show of hands: How many would rather have AI politicians? AI judiciary? AI lawyers? What could go wrong?

It's just as errant thought. Carry on.
.

No, not at all. The origins of Brexit go back much further than that. But the two movements started to feed off each other once MAGA got going.

Brexit goes back far and deep into the British - or, perhaps, English - soul. Unfortunately.

MAGA exists because Obama was president. It’s not a mystery.

Yep, it's been dividing the country my entire lifetime and long before.

And the US isn't the first global superpower to decline and find its population fighting amongst themselves. Ancient Rome imploded well before the British Empire.

Jim, an earlier version ChatGPT was asked to say something positive about Trump and something positive about Biden. Its answer was four times longer for Biden so they reprogrammed it. The latest version gives them a positive reading of roughly the same length for both. There's can be clever manipulation going on through claimed balance.

If you want to do something good for the country, or the planet, or the female sex, there's an easy thing you can do that will cost you nothing. Just never vote for a Republican. For any office from local on up.

Amen, Gail.

Nemo

Yes, Gail. I would have never expected it to get this bad. My god. Well, time to learn how to shoot a gun.