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-   -   Chapman's Iliad (https://www.ablemuse.com/erato/showthread.php?t=35921)

N. Matheson 07-26-2024 11:31 AM

Chapman's Iliad
 
Arguably the second most famous Iliad in English (I'd say Pope's ranks above in terms of fame) but personally, I would place Chapman's Iliad as the greatest in the English language. Obviously, I can't post the entire thing, but here are a few standout passages for me. You can find the whole poem online, it's been in the public domain for centuries.

Opening Lines
Achilles’ baneful wrath resound, O Goddess, that impos’d
Infinite sorrows on the Greeks, and many brave souls los’d.
From breasts heroic; sent them far to that invisible cave
That no light comforts; and their limbs to dogs and vultures gave;
To all which Jove’s will gave effect; from whom first strife begun
Betwixt Atrides, king of men, and Thetis’ godlike son.

This one is worth comparing the Greek and English of Chapman
Homeric Simile
ἠύτε ἔθνεα εἶσι μελισσάων ἁδινάων,
πέτρης ἐκ γλαφυρῆς αἰεὶ νέον ἐρχομενάων·
βοτρυδὸν δὲ πέτονται ἐπ᾿ ἄνθεσιν εἰαρινοῖσιν·
αἱ μέν τ᾿ ἔνθα ἅλις πεποτήαται, αἱ δέ τε ἔνθα· (2.87–90)
(Even as tribes of gathering bees go forth from some hollow rock, ever coming on afresh, and in
clusters over spring flowers fly in a throng, some here, some there.)
Trs. credit to Robert S. Miola

Chapman's
As when of frequent bees
Swarms rise out of a hollow rock, repairing the degrees
Of their egression endlessly with ever rising new,
From forth their sweet nest as their store, still as it faded, grew,
And never would cease sending forth her clusters to the spring,
They still crowd out so, this flock here, that there, belabouring
The loaded flow’rs

Roger Slater 07-26-2024 11:37 AM

Wow, I feel like an astronomer when a new planet has swum into my ken!

But seriously, I much prefer a modern translation. There's no reason for a 21st century reader to be forced to contend with 17th century English to experience a text written in the 9th century BCE.

Carl Copeland 07-26-2024 12:17 PM

I studied the first lines of the Iliad in Greek many years ago, and Chapman’s translation is lovely and accurate, except for the “invisible cave,” which is “Hades” in the original. What is “los’d,” btw? Loosed? Lost? I’ve read Lattimore’s and Fitzgerald’s translations, both of which are very beautiful even without rhyme and strict meter. Both are less archaic, though not exactly contemporary either. I doubt I’d have the patience to get through Chapman or Pope, but I really should have a look at them. Thanks for the recommendation!

Roger Slater 07-26-2024 01:33 PM

I think the go-to translation these days is the new Wilson, written in fluent and contemporary iambic pentameter.

W T Clark 07-26-2024 01:55 PM

I once read both the Pope translations and lay down into a migraine: dividing Homer into couplets to me felt like attempting to express the sea as gold bars. There is so much praise for Wilson: but though she has pentameter, I miss Fitzgerald's furious music. I am not sure that pentameter ever "fitted" Homer anyway: he is too wavelike. Lattimore can be quite compulsive with his surf. And rhyme makes the poems snap-shut where they are capacious. Still, we thank Chapman for what he made the Londoner feel.

Yves S L 07-26-2024 02:23 PM

Does anyone know a good translation which does not prioritise "poetic English"?

W T Clark 07-26-2024 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yves S L (Post 499959)
Does anyone know a good translation which does not prioritise "poetic English"?

Fagles, most likely.

Yves S L 07-26-2024 03:25 PM

Thanks Cameron.

W T Clark 07-26-2024 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yves S L (Post 499965)
Thanks Cameron.

What to you does "poetic language" mean? Fagles still, but without exactitude it is partly guesswork.

Roger Slater 07-26-2024 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yves S L (Post 499959)
Does anyone know a good translation which does not prioritise "poetic English"?

Yes, the one I mentioned. Emily Wilson.

Yves S L 07-27-2024 01:09 AM

Thank you Roger.

Yves S L 07-27-2024 01:30 AM

I came upon this review of Wilson's translation: https://casa-kvsa.org.za/legacy/AC63...-18DEC2019.pdf

It is enough to rule that one out. I think I will have to go further back in time. Most of all I want accuracy.

W T Clark 07-27-2024 04:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yves S L (Post 499977)
I came upon this review of Wilson's translation: https://casa-kvsa.org.za/legacy/AC63...-18DEC2019.pdf

It is enough to rule that one out. I think I will have to go further back in time. Most of all I want accuracy.

https://www.google.com/search?q=whic...e-gws-wiz-serp

N. Matheson 07-27-2024 04:58 AM

So nobody here is actually interested in the merits of Chapman, just how other translations are better.

Roger Slater 07-27-2024 08:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yves S L (Post 499977)
I came upon this review of Wilson's translation: https://casa-kvsa.org.za/legacy/AC63...-18DEC2019.pdf

It is enough to rule that one out. I think I will have to go further back in time. Most of all I want accuracy.

Suit yourself. Personally, what I want most is to be thrilled and engrossed by what I'm reading in English. Any translation of any poem can be faulted for "accuracy," since translations always involve judgment calls, but Wilson is a scholar whose judgments I trust. Since I do not use translations as an assist to help me access the original, what I look for in a translation is readability and enjoyment, and I think Wilson's translations are hands-down the best by that standard.

Julie Steiner 07-29-2024 11:33 PM

Yves, the review you cited is not of Wilson's Iliad, but of her Odyssey, to which she took a quite different approach. Here are a few snippets of A.E. Stallings's review of the Iliad:

Quote:

Wilson’s Odyssey stirred up an energetic discourse (particularly online): was it too brisk and clear? Was it – and here the arguments are less easy to follow – too ‘woke’? (Wilson was uncompromising in calling enslaved people, especially women, slaves, and not, say, handmaidens.) But arguably the most radical thing about the translation was that it conveyed the Greek in a strict iambic pentameter (the meter of your average sonnet), not the ‘loose five beat line’ or ‘loose six beat line’ favoured by epic translators for conveying Greek’s unrhymed dactylic hexameter since the mid-20th century.

Wilson has approached the Iliad slightly differently. Again, the translation is uncompromisingly metrical, strongly rhythmic and designed to be read and heard aloud, but Wilson has allowed herself to expand beyond the line-for-line scheme of her Odyssey, giving her more room to include all the facets of the Greek, the epithets, the patronymics, and more lyrical latitude – including flexing more luxuriously Latinate and polysyllabic words. The Iliad is already a long poem – it is nearly 3,500 lines longer than the Odyssey – yet somehow the result of giving the poem more breathing room is, counterintuitively, to speed up the relentless action while letting our attention slow down and focus on – to really listen, I want to say, rather than ‘read’ – what is happening.

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/...-of-the-iliad/
Those to whom accuracy is of primary concern might be interested in this line of George Chapman's Wikipedia entry:
Quote:

Chapman often extends and elaborates on Homer's original contents to add descriptive detail or moral and philosophical interpretation and emphasis. [...] Chapman's translation of Homer was admired by Alexander Pope for "a daring fiery spirit that animates his translation, which is something like what one might imagine Homer himself would have writ", though he also disapproved of Chapman's roughness and inaccuracy.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Chapman
If we eliminate all imperfect translations, we'll eliminate all translations.


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