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-   -   Other Birds (https://www.ablemuse.com/erato/showthread.php?t=36443)

John Riley 04-22-2025 09:08 AM

Other Birds
 
Other Birds

Follow the thrush’s feather
forest boy
into the red twilight
deep in the heart
of the woods
where a city of black roofs
spins in a small circle
in a clearing
between the circling trees
where the sky erupts
with pulses
of more exquisite birds
than the thrush that stares
from the top
of his single tree.

Yves S L 04-22-2025 10:12 AM

Hello John,

I am curious if you might develop a longer narrative arc using this strophe pattern. The poem works as is, and I get that it is meant to feel incomplete, to feel like the start of something, but I am curious.

You could call it the Riley Stanza.

Formal innovation is fun!

Yves S L 04-22-2025 01:00 PM

Hello John,

So my mind keeps trying to analyze what the pattern is. One variation that has just come to me is:

Follow the thrush’s feather (6 syllables long)
forest son (3 syllables short)
into the red twilight (6 syllables long)
deep in the heart (4 syllables short)
of the forest (4 syllables short)
where a city of black roofs (7 syllables long)
spins in a small circle (6 syllables long)
in a clearing (4 syllables short)

between the circling trees (6 syllables long)
where the sky erupts (5 syllables long)
with pulses (3 syllables short)
of more exquisite birds (6 syllables long)
than the thrush that stares (5 syllables long)
from the top (3 syllables short)
of his single tree. (5 syllables long)

So, for me, the most fundamental building block to the Riley Stanza is the long, long short:

where a city of black roofs
spins in a small circle
in a clearing

between the circling trees
where the sky erupts
with pulses

of more exquisite birds
than the thrush that stares
from the top


What makes the ending so effective is how you disrupted the final long, long, short with a final long line.

The next fundamental building block is opening alternating long, short, long, short:

Follow the thrush’s feather
forest son
into the red twilight
deep in the heart

Using these two basic rhythmic blocks, and allowing long or short to make a larger 5 block rhythmic unit, one could create all kinds of interesting waving cadences over a longer narrative arc. Which is why I am curious to see this stanza design over a longer stretch of story.

Free verse can be as constrained as rhyme and meter.

John Riley 04-23-2025 06:34 AM

I made a couple of edits. I'll be back Yves when I have more time.

Yves S L 04-23-2025 07:07 AM

Hello John. Now I have seen your edits, I see there is another layer of rhythmic patterning overlaid the variations of short and long based on whether you end with a stressed or unstressed syllable.

Cool. I'm having fun. It is not common these days for me to find a poem on the board that makes me want to analyze stuff! What is the secret of the magic trick???

W T Clark 04-24-2025 12:22 PM

Real homage—John, this is wonderful!

Alex Pepple 04-24-2025 04:51 PM

Hello, John,

I like the sense of enchantment this evokes. One observation: for the line "between the circling trees," I find that "circling," for trees, sounds off (even if the circling might be attributable to the earlier city's spins). Maybe "... between the circle of trees" or even "... between the encircling trees" might make better sense.

This is good stuff, John!

Cheers,
...Alex

David Callin 04-26-2025 09:09 AM

Hi John. This feels strong, as it is. It made me think of Wallace Stevens. Which can't be a bad thing?

Cheers

David

Jim Ramsey 04-27-2025 06:38 AM

Hi John,

Two places that hit me wrong were "between" which I think should be "among" and "from the top of his single tree," which seemed askew because thrushes are known as ground dwelling birds, though they must get up high in trees at times I would think. To me it's like putting a grouse, or quail, or pheasant up at the top of a tree. Maybe a change might even add something to the piece. Say, something like, "from the tangle of low briars."

all the best,
Jim

John Riley 04-29-2025 08:29 AM

Sorry about the delay responding. Yves, I appreciate your interest in my poem. You’ve provided me some things to consider. I’m pleased you recognize the rhythm. As for making it more metrical that’s something to consider. I try to find the rhythm of the poem’s topic. As for it being longer, I have to wait for some inspiration. Thanks.

Thanks, Cam. Pleased you like it.

Alex, “circling” is the spot I was unsure of. I think I’ll follow your first suggestion.

Thanks, David. Stevens is a flattering comparison. I read it to be simpler than his brain-breaking poems. More the story of a single life.

Jim, thanks for the notes. I can always move “top” and combine the last two lines. I do think thrush move higher in trees but having it at the top isn’t of supreme importance.

Thanks, again to all.

Yves S L 04-29-2025 08:38 AM

Hello John,

There has been a bit of a miscommunication. I do not mean to make it more metrical. My point was that "freeverse" can be as constrained as metrical but in a different way.

The rhythm you created is its "own thing" and I am not asking you to make it more "metrical" as if metrical is always superior in some way.

It is possible for someone to mechanically write metrical poems but not really have a feel for rhythm (which is the more foundational skill and metrical poems can become tedious without it).

Joe Crocker 04-29-2025 10:13 AM

On Thrush ornithology, my understanding is that Song Thrushes (in UK at least) will spend a lot of time on the ground foraging for snails etc but when the males sing during the breeding season, tops of trees are favoured spots.

I liked the poem.:)

Trevor Conway 04-30-2025 05:33 AM

Hi John,

There's something quite endearing about this, although my impression upon finishing it was that you only took us a little way on the journey. There could be lots more to come.

I also felt some of the language strained towards the poetic, in a way that makes the poem/language feel less fresh than it could be. I'm thinking mainly of words like "twilight", "heart", and maybe also "pulses" and "exquisite" in the context of the poem.

Anyway, some more specific feedback below. I hope you get something worthwhile from it.

All the best,

Trev

Follow the thrush’s feather [nice, simple opening]
forest boy [not crazy about this; it kind of feels like a put-down, for some reason. Is there a need to directly address someone? I think you could remove this line]
into the red twilight [or "red dawn/dusk"?]
deep in the heart
of the woods [maybe "deep in the bowels of the woods/forest", all one line? The line break feels too self-conscious and unnecessary to me, like some others below]
where a city of black roofs
spins in a small circle
in a clearing
between the circling trees [combine this line and the previous one into one line?]
where the sky erupts
with pulses
of more exquisite birds [combine this and the previous two lines into one long line?]
than the thrush that stares
from the top
of his single tree. [Combine this line and the previous one into one line? Remove the word "single"?]

From here, I think you have loads more room to explore. We could see lots more of the city or else some other kind of landscape (a specific home or a river, for example) if the feather is blown that way. Or you could focus on the thrush. Why are the other birds more exquisite?

John Riley 05-01-2025 06:51 PM

Yves, pardon me for misunderstanding. I jumped to a conclusion and missed the contrary evidence. I value what you say about rhythm. Rhythm is one thing that can't be taught, and to hear you say you read it here is good music.

Joe, thanks for clarifying the habits of a thrush. I am pleased you like the poem.

Trevor, your comment about language striving too much toward poetics rang my bell. I find that sort of critique valuable, so I'll use it.

Thanks, again


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