Dear Fellow Members

I thought it might be helpful if I posted a short note about how I intended to proceed in considering the poems I have been offered. I began this task earlier this week, and it is already apparent to me that I shall not be able to complete my comments on six poems by the end of the coming week as originally announced. As well as the size of the task itself, there are some incidental but unavoidable domestic reasons for this.

Instead, therefore, what I shall do is take each poem I choose to address in turn and, over a period of time – not too long a time, I hope - post my responses one by one. This plan will have the added advantage of allowing you time to consider each poem in the light of my own remarks before another is posted and, if you wished, to post observations of your own. By the way, I do not expect myself to add further comments to such discussions.

I mentioned the number of poems above. It may be that in the event I shall not choose six poems to work on from the ten I have been sent. Whether I take six or slightly fewer, however, it is important for the poets whose poems are not selected not to assume that I have judged their poems uninteresting. It would just be that I felt not properly qualified to offer useful comment on their particular submission. In other words, it would be a reflection on myself, not on them.

Finally, though it should not be necessary to say this, I want to state clearly that the opinions I shall be expressing are offered in good faith in the hope that the poets concerned might find something useful in what I had to say, whether for the poem in question or for poems they have still to write. Rather than clutter my comments by repeating such phrases as “in my opinion” and “to my mind”, I shall generally just say straight out what I think. If that gives my remarks a slightly formal air, I apologize, but I hope that everyone will read them in the spirit I have just indicated.

Kind regards to all…

Clive Watkins

Dear Clive,

I am requesting that my poem,

"Sylvia Addresses Her Legend"

please be removed from consideration for your inspection. Please be assured that my request has nothing to do with you. I respect your work and scholarly critique and certainly appreciate the fact that you are willing to do this service for us. Unfortunately, after a remark by Tim Murphy, concerning this endeavor, I've come to the personal conclusion that this event has come about to placate rather than truly bring regard and instruction to the art of free verse. Thank you.

Respectfully,
Terri

I'm missing something, if the desired qualification is the ability to offer scholarly critique, a competence Clive Watkins has in spades and acknowledged so, how could some putative remark by Tim Murphy possibly jeapordise the integrity of Clive's comments?

Dear Terri

Well, that’s a shame! Still, it’s less work for me since your poem was one of those I was definitely intending to comment on, a job I had planned to undertake on Thursday.

I assure you that I have no intention of trying to placate anyone. Who needs placating, anyway? I am simply writing, as carefully, as thoughtfully and as honestly as I can, a critique of some of the ten poems sent to me by Victoria Gaile. In doing so I shall try to shed some light on some of the technical issues involved in writing non-metrical verse, an exercise which I hope – to quote from your post – will “truly bring regard and instruction to the art of free verse”.

I do this as someone who for forty years has written both metrical and non-metrical verse. Some of my non-metrical stuff, by the way, not included in Jigsaw, would, as I am well aware from the comments of the small number of people who have seen it privately, not be at all to the taste of many who post here, being formally far more transgressive than almost everything that typically appears at Erato.

Anyway, every cloud…. Now I shall be able to get back to a writing project of my own a little sooner than I had expected.

Perhaps, with a different Lariat and at a different time, you might find yourself taking part.

Regards

Clive

Clive,

I've nothing but the utmost respect for you and will be looking in on your thoughtful insight on the poems you've chosen to work with. I appreciate you taking the time from your busy schedule to do such a task, thank you for that.

Best Regards,
Terri

On adjacent threads, I have now posted a commentary on two of the ten poems Victoria Gaile sent me recently – Fred Longworth’s “Opening the Vain” and Shekhar Aiyar’s “Moths”. It will be some days before I am able to post further critiques – perhaps into next week.

Clive Watkins

As I do not know that I could add anything aside from applause on any of the individual threads, I just want to register my awe with regard to Clive's talent as a critic and his commitment to the art of criticism. Perhaps we should preserve some of these threads as a model of what criticism can entail.

epigone

Dear Fellow Spherians

I have now written close commentaries on four of the ten poems I was sent. The original plan was that I should write six, but, as I noted above and agreed with Victoria and Tim, I took upon myself the licence to choose fewer than six if I felt I needed to.

I had planned to write about Inkwellpoetess’s poem “Sylvia Addresses Her Legend”. Unfortunately, having allowed it to go forward, Terri subsequently asked for it to be withdrawn. Hers would have been the fifth poem.

For a number of reasons, I have decided not to comment on any further poems in this group. The reasons vary from poem to poem, but, as I said at the top of this thread, “it is important for the poets whose poems are not selected not to assume that I have judged their poems uninteresting.”

I have been fascinated to read the various responses my comments have provoked. I now intend to write a final piece, drawing together some of the more general points I deliberately embedded in my commentaries and also, perhaps, picking up some of the points which those responding have made. Since next week is a holiday in my house, it may be a few days before I get round to this – which gives everyone a longer time to digest things so far!

Kind regards to all!

Clive Watkins

I think that epigone makes a good point. Can we preserve this stuff anywhere?

On a side note, where the hell did the Razor go? Seems like Golias deleted all his posts in that topic. I found the Razor very useful as a guideline and every once in awhile I mention it in my crits. Can we bring that back and put it in an archive of "methods of critique"? That's where I'd imagine some of Clive's crits could go...

-eaf

Good Cop - Bad Cop. Part II.

Clive, why don't you first send your review of Inkwell Poetess' poem to her for approval? IN THAT WAY I think this situation can end without further sulking or upraised eyes.

Be nice, you know you can...

It would make this entire process more or less impossible, but what is lost in that? Anyway, I get a headache from all this and have to lie down.

Go Away,


Geoff


P.S. And close the door.

Clive,

Sorry about the ill wind . . .

I, for one, much appreciate your efforts.

Fred

[This message has been edited by Fred Longworth (edited February 25, 2004).]

Dear Fred

Thanks for your supportive comment.

I am at the moment in the middle of writing what will be the first of two concluding pieces. I hope to have this up by the end of the week. This first piece deals with a number of issues; the second will focus entirely on lineation.

Thanks again for your support.

Kind regards

Clive

Geoff,
My request that my poem be withdrawn from consideration for this exercise has nothing to do with Clive or his critique methods, it had to do with the politics of this forum. I have really enjoyed Clive's work here, he put a lot of effort into it and we have all learned a great deal about reading deeper, for it. It is my loss to have withdrawn my poem, but really it is ok, water under the bridge as they say.

Clive,
I do appreciate the free education you've provided all of us through this exercise! Thank you and looking forward to your conclusion.

Warm Regards,
Terri

Dear Fellow Spherians

This note is to apologize for the delay in posting my piece about lineation. I had hoped to do this last week, but I recently took delivery of a new and long-delayed computer. Its arrival led to a number of technical tribulations which I have not yet quite overcome. Nonetheless, I am sufficiently far forward to risk saying that the piece should appear by the end of this week.

Regards to all

Clive Watkins