Larkin's Mop and Pop
 

I seem to recall a thread a long time ago about "This Be the Verse," and whether or not it could be considered light verse. Well, this article is evidence that the poem was at least more tongue-in-cheek than some readers were willing to believe.

I'm not sure loving one's mum and pup
ever precluded their f***ing you up.

A loving pup and loving mum
portend the f**cked up man to come

I've always thought of This Be the Verse as a tender and loving tribute to his parents.

I loved my parents and they certainly f####ed me up. Loving one's parents has nothing to do with the rest of the statement. Of course he told his mother that having children was worth while. That's what one says to all mothers. And fathers come to think of it.

Truth exists on many levels as does humour.

The poem is a hoot, was intended as a hoot, and continues to be ... a hoot.

What is gained by substituting "&&&" and "###" for "uck"? Do you clothe your piano legs with bloomers? Do you insist that guests refer to legs, thighs, and breasts as dark meat and light? Do you refer to pregnancy as "an interesting condition"?

I can see insisting on "screw" or "mess" as substitutions in the sentence "&*#! you up"--it's childish, but I do see what interests are being served--but "f***ing" doesn't even disguise itself: it just advertises its prudery.

RHE

I think people are just trying to be good buddies and follow the rules of the community. We had a long and heated discussion on this topic some months ago. Asterisks are a commendable show of good will.

Richard, I think not everybody knows what is l**kung in a euphemistic f**k.

But I may be wrong because I was convinced everyone did put bloomers on their piano l*gs. Are you trying to tell me that some gross persons f**king don't?

I think the idea is not prudish but practical: it helps keep unwanted spiders and crawlers away.

As for the Larkin poem, I have never understood it as a programmatic pronouncement against childbearing, but an exceptionally eloquent expression of a sentiment many, many people can relate to from time to time.

David R.

Richard, regarding those piano legs, I agree with you that it is preferable to call a spade a spade. I was observing the rules.

Kate, there is a lot more than "hoot" to that poem. He means the joke, yes. But he also means the black and bitter things that most of us dare not think or say. That's why we take Larkin seriously.

As a voluntarily childless person, I always considered the poem to be a vote for my side, without being an insult to his parents.

"Asterisks are a commendable show of good will."

I didn't know that. I always thought of them as a shortcut to the most interesting parts of Gibbon.

RHE

Richard--

What everyone is tiptoeing around is that there is a general ban on swear words, ostensibly for reasons of government surveillance (though I've yet to hear of a poetry site getting shut town for a "f%^k" or "s#!t" or a$$ or "I'd like to f%^k Shirley Mae in the a$$. Yeah, right in the s#!tter!"), but really, I suspect, a certain schoolmarmishness. Which is a bit indicative.

Hell, I got griped out via PM by management for writing "hell" a few months ago, a word that appears a hell of a lot in American prime-time TV programming. I mean, what the hell?

Doesn't Larkin pretty much let parents off the hook in the second line, by saying that the damage is inevitable, regardless of good or ill intent?

I've always read the final line as looking backwards at the previous generation with sympathy and understanding--a variation on the "Judge not, lest ye be judged" motif--rather than a serious prescription for the future. (Even if Larkin does seem to have taken his own advice.)

It's astonishing to me how often the wry, dry, ironic, "seriously funny" poem is earnestly received by readers. This poem is a perfect example. It takes the ol' parent-blaming argument from psychoanalysis to an absurd conclusion, a reductio ad absurdam. It's not about "bad parents" but the part-smart mindset that blames parents for all the bad things in one's life while crediting them for none of the good.

The lilting rhymed quatrains result in a poem that is not heavy satire, but light satire, delicious. It's also a dramatic monologue. I always hear it in my mind as spoken in an Irish brogue, but I suppose a cockney would do nicely. They say Larkin was a jaundiced person but here's proof that he could put a funny spin on his soupuss outlook.

what the hell?

Damned if I know. It's a #^*! of a thing. And now you tell me that if I tell the joke which ends,

He said, `Bugger all,' my Lord.

Really? I could have sworn I heard him say something

Dick Cheney might be listening. Or the Chairman of the Illuminati. Or someone.

RHE

Kate, psychoanalysis doesn't blame parents. It attempts to understand the dynamics. Human nature is the most complicated subject of all, and psychoanalysis tries to study it. Maybe a fool's errand (though I don't happen to think so) - but it's not about blame.

C*ver y**r f*cking l*gs, p*rv*rts!

--Vickie "My Parents Made Me Do It" Torrian ;D

Not quite a Cockney accent...sorry Kate!

Poems by Heart: Anna Evans recites Larkin's "This Be the Verse"

This is the thread I had in mind when I posted the article.

I don't know much about what "light" verse "should" be, but I think "This Be the Verse" is d@#* good for a laugh.

Of for heaven's sake, psychoanalysis is a complicated subject. I didn't mean to promulgate anything but I'll state as a fact that parent blaming was a huge aspect of my experience of psychoanalysis. Incorrect or not, the Freudian obsession with parental influence, the Oedipus complex, etc., weasled into the culture at large. Larkin was writing at a high point in the popularity of analysis and his mockery is spot on. That's the subject. Larkin. The poem. The matrix in which the poem was written.

Wot she said

I like what Kate's written, too--hadn't thought about the poem as a response to the prevailing Freudian psychobabble of the time, but that fits perfectly!

Still, that admission doesn't detract from my God-given right to make a fool of myself in public by misinterpreting any poem any way I please. (Although I can't quite believe no one else sees a "Don't think you're any better than they were" vibe underlying the humor. Grumble. But I'll leave it there.)

Oh, yeah, I see that too: "don't have kids because someday you'll be the one wearing quaint outfits in the photo albums while your grown kids are mucking about and malingering and all effed up!" :D

We are all f**ked up by our parents. It is just a question of degree.