I can't help it, but this thread reminds me of this:

“no one can be really esteemed accomplished who does not greatly surpass what is usually met with. A woman must have a thorough knowledge of music, singing, drawing, dancing, and the modern languages, to deserve the word; and besides all this, she must possess a certain something in her air and manner of walking, the tone of her voice, her address and expressions, or the word will be but half deserved.” Caroline Bingley

“All this she must possess,” added Darcy, “and to all this she must yet add something more substantial, in the improvement of her mind by extensive reading.” Mr. Darcy

“I am no longer surprised at your knowing only six accomplished women. I rather wonder now at your knowing any.” Elizabeth Bennet

LOL Cally! The Jane Austen killed me!

I would never post in AM myself, but I do enjoy seeing others' successes, whether they're 'large' or 'small' accomplishments, particularly when the announcement is made by someone other than the poet him/herself.

Simon said:
For myself, though, I enjoy reading whatever people want to post in AM--much as I'm always glad to see the "good news" thread in GT bumped back up and to see what's there.

I'm glad you mentioned that, Simon. The ''Post your GOOD news" thread is my baby - but I really didn't intend it to be a thread for announcing publication of work, so may I politely request, please, that everyone saves that kind of good news for The Accomplished Members board, which is what it was created for?

Thanks.

Jayne

Hey John- I glazed over you being put down over a publication. That's really shit. Can't imagine why anyone would do that.

Ten years ago, when I was a young and idealistic 28-year-old, I believe my very first post at Eratosphere was at Accomplished Members, mentioning a few of my first publications. Suffice it to say, I wasn't received very well (understandably so!). I don't think anyone else has been daft enough to barge in, pubs-a-blazing since then, but reading this thread makes me think that the question is more one of decorum than the actual size of the pubs (correct me if I'm wrong, Rick). I think the key is to be judicious about what pubs to post about. For some, getting into a low-readership 'zine is truly an accomplishment. For others, nothing short of Rattle is worth mentioning. It's true that this isn't a beginner's site, but the range of quality isn't really quantifiable either. In other words, I don't know if any edicts need to be posted to the door, but occasional reminders of judiciousness can't hurt.

Personally, I haven't published anything for awhile. I did, however, read my girlfriend one of my poems a few weeks ago and she liked it. That's all the accomplishment I need lately. Not sure I'd make a thread about it though. ;)

Yes, decorum. There is precious little of that displayed these days in the online world (or anywhere it seems). Let's not lose it here.
x

Even though I said earlier that I love to read of others' successes, there are lots of successes that go completely unannounced and unrecognised, so maybe The Accomplished Members board ought to be saved for major announcements only, and not just any and every publication of a poem. I do see where Rick's coming from...

Over on the Deep Drills boards we have the Brit poetry competitions, namely the weekly Spectator, and the monthly Oldie, which many of us here enter - (and frequently win, or get an Honorable Mention, which is almost as good) - but no one would ever know, unless they read the ''Results'' threads or subscribe to the actual magazines, yet both of these venues are considered to be prestigious. Prize money isn't huge but the kudos is immense.

It's up to individuals how much they want to boast or brag! The main thing to remember, though, is that AM is a board where we read of good things only, so Let It Be :D

Jayne

This is a disappointing thread. I have seen really stunning work in some of the so-called minor journals and stuff that I could not make it all the way through in the more pretigious venues. Who says the eye for great work is better here or there? Kill this thread and pretend it never happened. Bad form.

Jayne, people can already read the winners of all of the British journal contests just by going to the Drills and Amusements thread. I look at those all the time. I don't think there is a need for any of those winners to publicize their winning as well on the Accomplished Members thread. What I would be sorry to have happen is for others who have publications not to mention them on Eratosphere at all, out of misplaced modesty or fear that others will consider their publications not worth mentioning. That would deprive me of learning of their poems. No one is obliged to read postings on the Accomplished Members thread, so I think it is bad form to object when a member posts there.

Susan

That seems a little extreme, Andrew. Nobody has been hurt or insulted. In the course of the discussion I've gone from having no opinion, to tentatively agreeing with the original post, to changing my mind again. It's been interesting; you know like discussions between adults sometimes are. I'm not sure why you would want to wish the varying opinions of 24 people out of existence.

Also, surely the whole style of the 'sphere is predicated on hierarchy and elitism, with its little yellow star system, its 'Distinguished Guest' and 'Musings on Mastery' etc. When I first joined it made me laugh, but we all accept it don't we? If the rules governing 'Accomplished Members' had been more obviously set in stone from the 'sphere's birth (print journals only/only websites run by published writers...whatever) then we would have accepted that too. We would leave announcement of anything that didn't meet these criteria to our Facebook pages and look at AM and think 'One day...'. It may even have fuelled ambition and led people to really nurture their talent. I'm not suggesting this should be the case, but it seems to me it would have been completely in keeping with the sphere's general style and nobody would have been offended by it.

Edit: to clarify.

I agree with you that the relative prestige of a publication may not necessarily reflect the quality of the work in it.

I think AM should be left as it is.

But allow people to discuss, without making them feel bad about their opinions.

This suggestion and the discussion it prompted does cause me to remember the Sphere is structured around an assumed elitism. This may be inevitable with a metrical poetry board. I understand that. It is the world as it exists and I joined up and have learned so much in so many directions. But like all elitism, it depends on an established notion of quality and leaves only cracks for something different but good to creep through. Again, it says metrical poetry board on the door. An accepted hierarchy of worthy journals with a little shifting around is what one should expect here. It's implicit in the elitist culture of a metrical poetry board and while there is so much to learn here about writing poetry and so much more to learn about the poetry everyone should read, regardless of writing style, we have to remember it's ultimately a niche. There are other worlds out there and hiding from them doesn't alter that.

I don't know if people get hurt by the idea that their listing or planned on listing of accomplishments are questioned as real or not. I don't. At least i don't think so. If there is hurt for some it is in the suggestion itself, thus the wish to erase.

Don't make me feel bad for my opinion. I can't actually erase this. I think AM should be left as he is/ I am.

Well I really hope nobody has felt hurt. The bulk of opinion is clearly that all accomplishments are equally valid. It wasn't your opinion I objected to, but your suggestion that nobody else should be allowed to express theirs.

But I wouldn't want AM or AM any other way...;)

Double posted!

I agree.

I don't see why measured disagreement should make you feel bad about your opinion. People need to be able to disagree without being accused of bad faith.

(With apologies for stating the obvious, Mark didn't criticize you for disagreeing with Rick's post, as most in this thread have done, but for suggesting that we

)

Take a look at the "Recruiting" thread on AM, which I've tracked down and popped up. It goes back to 2002 and covers the same topic, while lamenting the sad decline in standards on Erato.

I was joking a bit with Mark's post to me, Max.
The post was my measured disagreement. Some like yards, I like miles.

I have decided to allow this thread to continue.

Don't f**k with a poet. (There goes that bar again...)

All along the watchtower
Princes kept the view
While all the women came and went
Barefoot servants, too
Outside in the cold distance
A wildcat did growl
Two riders were approaching
And the wind began to howl
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx—Zimmerman

x

I think literary achievements of all types should be welcomed on the "Accomplished Members" thread. The individual poet is in the best position to decide whether or when to share a given achievement. Anyone who disagrees about where a given post falls on the spectrum of prestige can just skip to something else.

There are publications I was very proud of in my youth that really weren't all that stellar, but they were stepping stones that meant a lot at the time & the editorial encouragement was essential--as was the support of friends & fellow writers on the same journey.

Re: David Anthony’s post (#56):

This seems to be a common internet board phenomenon. Another board where I’ve spent a lot of time for the last 10+ years has recurrent threads bewailing the decline in the wit and quality of the posts. About a year ago, the masthead read:

[Name of board]: 20 years of being SO much better last year.

I still spend a lot of time there.

I agree and speaking of the Piddly Asses of Parnassus...

This poet whose luck was once sparse
and grasp of the ‘po-biz’ a farce,
when published and praised
quickly went from amazed
to acting the arrogant arse.

Hey folks. I look at this thread, and at the recent Rupi Kaur one, and I see that I’ve made more contributions to them than anyone else. And those contributions tell me that, when it comes to sounding off about what is and isn’t worthy poetry, I’ve become a bit of an opinionated dick. The ‘me’ of 18 months ago would ask the ‘me’ of today who the hell he thinks he is. And the irony is I’m finding it harder and harder to write.

I’m going to unplug and reassess for a little while.

Cheers x

Edit: My little limerick refers to me and nobody else btw. To be clear...

As a periodic poster, I just discovered this thread today. Rick, I'm very glad you raised this issue. I find myself self-censoring all the time--and then I get in the same tangle demonstrated on this thread about what's worthy of posting and what's not. I published quite a bit in 2016-2017, but I'm pretty sure I haven't mentioned most of the publications. I did mention my first book, "Descanso Drive" (Kelsay Books), which I'm very proud of. And many of the poems in it were workshopped here.

But really what I want to say is that maybe we, the writers, should be judges of what we note in AM. Several people have said that--let the writer decide. I think most people do a tiny bit of self-censoring. And perhaps that's all to the good.

BUT I also agree with the beginning poets. Be proud! Tell the world it's your first publication! Or that you published five poems this year! We want to know! I've been there!

I always like the end-of-year posts, as in, here's what I published this year. It's good place to mention everything. Not much, for most people, right? Unless you're Tim Murphy. (God bless you, Tim!)

Facebook puts a spanner in the works too. I pretty much note everything there--as everyone else does. So then I think, since many of my friends are poets who post on Sphere, should I post again?.

However, concerning what to post and what not, I really would like to see the whole range. The Sphere has helped me a lot in finding places to publish. In fact, it's because of mentions on the Sphere that I've published in Antiphon (UK), Angle, The Anglican Theological Review, String Poet, New Trad (Australia), The Raintown Review, Calamaro, Lighten Up Online, Free Inquiry, Shotglass, The European Journal of International Law (UK) and Riptide (UK).

The others, including some hoity-toity ones, I encountered though recommendation by other poets, or because they pay--I researched it!--or simply because everyone knows them.

So.... bottom line: Let's keep it the way it is, with some self-censoring. Again, thank you, Rick for clearing the air!

Charlotte