Eratosphere

Eratosphere (https://www.ablemuse.com/erato/index.php)
-   General Talk (https://www.ablemuse.com/erato/forumdisplay.php?f=21)
-   -   meter 7 centuries ago (https://www.ablemuse.com/erato/showthread.php?t=28790)

Mary Meriam 11-06-2017 05:31 PM

meter 7 centuries ago
 
Quote:

Some of the scansion problems in the Homeric poems “can be resolved if you restore older forms of Greek which are consistent with the dialect recorded in Linear B documents,” said Dr. Bennet of the British School at Athens.
A Grecian Artifact Evokes Tales From the ‘Iliad’ and ‘Odyssey’

wait, wrong subject. Meter so long ago I can't even do the math.

John Isbell 11-06-2017 05:43 PM

Hmm. I remember scanning Propertius at school and stumbling over Ariadnen, which required a long i, before the teacher told me it scanned following Greek rules. It's odd when things scan according to a system you don't anticipate (though I should really have guessed).

Cheers,
John

Allen Tice 11-07-2017 03:08 PM

Homeric language is full of odd forms. I wonder if he is referring to the evaporated digamma (which looked like our F) and which had a woofy sound (W) not present the written Homeric texts. Just my two obols.

John Isbell 11-07-2017 03:54 PM

Kazakh has the digamma with the same sound. It's the sound of the Turkic g in Erdogan, I'd never made the Homeric connection. :-)

Cheers,
John

Allen Tice 11-07-2017 10:05 PM

In our received Homeric texts, the W is absent, which means that since it is a consonant, its original presence which had led to specific scansion patterns in certain formulaic expressions (patterns which persisted even after the digamma ceased to be pronounced) no longer conformed to the needs of dactylic hexameter. I will let someone else explain how the metrical difficulties were resolved. An example is the earlier WANAX vs. the later ANAX.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anax

Allen Tice 11-07-2017 10:33 PM

Further, from : https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dactylic_hexameter

Finally, even after accepting the various alterations admitted by Homer, some lines remain impossible to scan as they stand now, e.g. Iliad I.108 "not a good word spoken nor brought to pass":

ἐσθλὸν δ’ οὐτέ τί πω εἶπας ἔπος οὔτ’ ἐτέλεσσας
The first three feet of this line scan spondee-dactyl-spondee, but the fourth foot of -πας ἔπος has three consecutive short syllables. These metrical inconsistencies (along with a knowledge of comparative linguistics) have led scholars to infer the presence of a lost digamma consonant in an old form of that line. In this example, the word ἔπος was originally ϝέπος in Ionian; this consonant lengthens the last syllable of the preceding εἶπας and corrects the apparent defect in the meter. This example demonstrates the oral tradition of the Homeric epics that flourished long before they were written down sometime in the 7th century BC.

AZ Foreman 11-10-2017 04:59 PM

Sort of. But there are many cases where Homeric meter only makes sense if you keep the innovative forms. The /w/ sound if restored to all its etymological positions would disrupt the meter far more than it would contribute to it. Homeric Greek is composed of several layers seperated from each other in time and somewhat in space.

Allen Tice 11-10-2017 05:20 PM

Pretty well put.


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:53 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.