Quote:
Originally posted by Andrew Frisardi:
Janet,
I'm with you entirely about the rhymes in English, and how rich the possibilities (and realizations!) are. But I disagree about the Italian in comparison. Would you explain what you mean by endings being "grammar driven"? I don't think I am following that point. I think of the long tradition in Italy, going back to the thirteenth century, of jokey-popular poetry, often using rough rhymes--the ones Dante called "rime aspre e ciocche"--harsh and sounding like the screech of a chicken. Or the scabrous poems the Italian poets used to exchange, where rhyme sounds played up the contrasts, the harsher the consonants the better.
Andrew
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Andrew,
Of course as soon as I search for examples I realise I have made a goat of myself. But I'm sick of hearing English speakers solemnly telling me that English is poorer in rhymes than Italian.
I was thinking mainly of Italian verbs but you are right. Italian has a huge variety as well. To an English ear the invariable vowel ending seems less able to exploit percussiveness. I have just looked at two Pascoli poems and they both rely on "o" "e" rhymes all the way through. Dishonestly leaving out the preceding consonant which is where the syllable really starts and where much of the character lies i.e.: ano, are, ano, are, ino, are, ino, ava, ino, ava, ando, ava, ando, ore, ando. Of course they are more complex rhymes elsewhere. Double consonants especially add sparkle. The whole word makes the rhyme in Italian and I have left out the important consonant berore the butchered syllables I showed. The real effect in Pascoli is: grano/ Seminare/ piano/mare/vicino/ compare/chino/cantava/ mattino/ aggiogava/mugliando/bava/Nando/maggiore/quando/Dore.
Dante rhymes chosen at random: ati, one, ati, ghia, ati. I realise that Italian rhyme must include the consonant before the rhyme to show its character.
English can slam down hard on a consonant ending but we have to go to "ing" or "en" or "le" endings to soften an ending unless a word ends on "f" or "z" or "m" or "n" or "l" etc. Both languages have their strengths. One just has to read a Shakespeare sonnet and then a Petrarca to experience it in exaggerated form.
In English I delight in the crisp light consonant ending of words. In America and Australia I lament the blunting of T into D.
Something for you to kick against.
Janet
[This message has been edited by Janet Kenny (edited July 09, 2007).]