[Chris Childers]

All hendecasyllabic means is 11 syllables; so the first two lines of the alcaic, the first three lines of the sapphic, and the Catullan line Frost uses in "For Once Then Something" are all technically hendecasyllabic lines, though we only use the name for the latter. As Jody points out in the other thread, the difference between the Catullan version (the hendecasyllabic proper) and the other two is the placement of the dactyl. So whereas Frost writes:

Others TAUNT me with HAVing KNELT at WELL-curbs

and the second foot is a dactyl, the sapphic goes like this:

ALL the NIGHT sleep CAME not upON my EYElids,
SHED not DEW, nor SHOOK nor unCLOSED a FEATher, etc.

Where the third foot is a dactyl. So the only difference between these two is where you put the dactyl. The alcaic simply takes that unstressed final syllable from the end of the sapphic line, and sticks it at the beginning:

conFUSED, he FOUND her LAvishing FEMinINE

I think it's crucial that the alcaic line ends on a stress, or at least, a secondary stress. I guess you don't HAVE to stress the last syllable of "feminine" if you don't want to, but I hear promotion. Compare this line from the same poem:

and WHY were DEAD years HUNgrily TELling HER

So the line ends on a stress, or at least, a secondary stress. It is really an iambic pentameter line with an extra unstressed syllable in the fourth foot.

.....

The difference then, the only difference, between the alcaic and sapphic hendecasyllabic, is that the alcaic starts on an unstress and ends on a stress, & the sapphic does the opposite, starts on a stress and ends on an unstress. But the dactyl is in the same place.

One more thing. Unlike the sapphic, but like iambic pentameter, the English alcaic allows substitution in the first foot. You can start with an iamb or a trochee; c.f. Stephen's first line in Ode to Bacchus:

BACchus, beLIEVE me, DIStant posTERiTY

The other thing, which is true of both sapphics and alcaics, is that in between beats 2 & 3 (DEAD and HUNGrily in the Robinson alcaic, NIGHT and CAME in the Swinburne sapphic above) it is nice and classical (though certainly not required) to put another heavy syllable that takes a while to say (years, sleep).

ALL the NIGHT (SLEEP) CAME not upON my EYElids,

and WHY were DEAD (YEARS) HUNgrily TELling HER

You don't have to feel (SLEEP) and (YEARS) as beats, but it is good to feel the *duration* of those three syllables (night sleep came, dead years hung) anchoring the line. That's it for alcaic lines 1 & 2. Lines 3 & 4 are another matter.

I understand Stephen will be shortly on his way with a poem and a learned disquisition which will hopefully clarify this whole thing for you, if I have still failed to do so.

Chris