[Yves S L]

N. Matheson,

I don't get all the seemingly bitter disappointment. If the poem is just one part of a greater whole, then it does not necessarily have to have the same success criteria as a standalone poem. Heck, I would say that the poem need only be clear (and some people have given specific advice on that), and fit in with its surroundings (which no one can comment on because they can't see the wider context)., while being stylistically consistent enough to fool inexperienced modern readers. If your poem needs a passage where some men are talking smack about a woman, then okay. The opening of the Illiad is somewhat entertaining for how quickly the super macho men establish women as property. They go all in.

Some folk said 16th century, and some folk say 17th century. Would the above poem be a stand-out effort in any of those time periods? It doesn't have to be. Most poems written now are not stand-out efforts of the current time period.

Living and dying on poetry forum comments is a sad way to go.