I am responding to something on the "Bedtime Story" thread because it's how this thread started in the first place and because I'd like us all to let that thread fall of the board. Please?
First I would like to compare two comments about that poem. Both are "bad" crits and by that I mean they are about how the poem is bad. I had asked the following questions because the second half of the poem had been called "irredeemable":
"1. Why, exactly, is it irredeemable?
2. Why is the first half not irredeemable? (that's the part I thought
would get slammed)
3. How does one express angst by removing the angst?"
(note, I was only slightly pissed off at this point)
The first response-
"1. I will answer with a quote: Turmoil floods and grips my brain because the world's gone quite insane and there's no answer I can find to ease the worry in my mind. This is not poetry, it's blather.
2. The first quatrains, though extremely cutesy, could be redeemed by a harshly undercutting title.
3. Sometimes you say more by saying less. In fact, half the art of poetry is the unspoken."
The second response-
"The problems here are:
1-you're reporting your feelings, not causing us to experience them. This is antithetical to a poetic experience;
2-pedestrian rhyme words;
3-unsupported hyperbole; I don't agree that the world is insane, and you haven't convinced me of it;
4-awkward use of words (can a turmoil grip? why is the world "quite" insane, other than to fit your meter? where else would a worry be but in your mind?).
I hope that this is of some use to you."
Critiquing vs. workshopping aside, isn't it clear that the latter is a more valuable comment than the former?
Charles' comments made me realize that even though those I showed this poem to in person actually paled when they got to the second half, and responded with comments like "wow", or were crying, it wasn't my poem making them respond like that. Those I showed this to all live in San Diego and are parents. The feelings were already in place.
Now I have been acused of not liking a "bad" crit-
"There are plenty of sites where the medicine is sugared, I prefer to take it unadulterated, in the long run it's less painful."
Yet I have already said:
"I'm not saying my poems can't stink. They probably do. That's why I'm here..."
One person actually complained that I prefered Charles' "bad" crit to theirs-
"Sharon, the art of the unsaid applies to critique also. Sometimes people feel that I deploy it too liberally. Charles has precisely delineated the problems, but you should have been able to do that for yourself. You might have reflected "Why would anyone call this blather? Could it be true?" Had you been honest with yourself, rather than indulging your hurt feelings, you might have arrived at the same conclusions Charles has explained for you. And it really is better to think these things through for yourself."
and in the
very same post accused me of the opposite:
"But if you prefer unmerited praise, there are sites where it can be had in abundance."
Go figure. I give up.
And to the person who said-
"Jim Hayes and I once had a very heated discussion of a highly technical matter, during which we both crossed the borders of civility. Afterward, we shook cyberhands and walked away from it.
Can you do that, Warren? And you Sharon, whom I have also offended?"
Glad too! Believe it or not I actually look forward to crossing swords again sometime.
Finally, Ewrgall, I am responding to you here because, like I said, I'd like that other thread to fall off the face of the earth but I wanted to thank you publicly. I am humbled that, with just a nudge and a snip you have improved the last two lines 1,000%.
"It's six AM now, hushed and cool.
Time to wake the kids for school.
Six AM....it's hushed and cool
And time to wake the kids for school"
I can see I have a lot to learn. It's good that I'm among such talented people. Leave the bar right where it is.
Sharon P.
[This message has been edited by momdebomb (edited March 15, 2001).]