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Unread 11-25-2011, 05:18 PM
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Don Jones Don Jones is offline
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About that "carmes."

Lance, you may have to ferret this out through other resources but I often use this, which you may already know about.

It has four separate entries for "carmes." The first is Carmelite as you translated it and it can be found in lower case:

"Eau (de mélisse) des carmes. Alcoolat de mélisse composé, dont l'invention est attribuée aux carmes." Emphasis added.

"Water (of bee-balm) of the Carmelites. A medicinal concoction (made from alcohol) composed of bee-balm, the invention of which is attributed to the Carmelites."

The second entry is "a loaf of white bread" or "miche de pain blanc."

The third relates to dice:

"Coup où l'un et l'autre des deux dés donne quatre."

"A toss where one and another of two dice come out to four." The score is therefore eight.

The fourth and last is from the Latin "carmen":

"Composition en vers, poésie."

Of these four I believe that you chose the correct definition. I don't know how much research you've done on Jean de la Ceppede but it would be important to see why he favors the Carmelites as he seems to demonstrate, if rather bizarrely, in his poem. I mean, why not the Franciscans?

Good luck,

Don
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