[Lydia Stamato]

Hi there,

First, I should say that this is an incredible forum and I am so happy to have found it. I started out about a year ago here, and, when I felt too terrible to post any poetry of my own, I ran. I'm sorry. I didn't stop reading or writing poetry, but I don't know that I've gotten any better. I wish to get better, because it comes naturally to me to write it, and I want to make it something really worth the while.

My question is: how tolerant is this place of poems that really suck, but are the best I can do at this time? I posted one poem last year and apparently it wasn't even workshopable. I'm scared. I know it's a supportive bunch, I can tell, and I REALLY want to improve.

I know I have a low self-esteem (working on it), but I also know that my work is, objectively, of a lower level than what I read here.

Should I just keep reading and commenting? Is it even worth our time for me to share?

I know there are other sites that are less critique-oriented, but I want so much to improve, not stay the same. Do you think I should "begin" sharing elsewhere?

So sorry for taking your time. Appreciate any and all thoughts you have!

[Shaun J. Russell]

Hi Lydia!

You'll get a variety of responses to this question, but for my own part, I recommend that you focus on reading poems by poets you like, as well as poets you don't, and deconstruct how those poems were crafted, and what made them likeable and unlikeable. I'm not sure at what "level" your work is, but if you truly believe it's not up to par with the other workshopped poems here, then it's likely in your best interest to NOT post your work, unless you're willing to hear a bunch of reasons why many folks don't think it's very good.

The only way to get better is to keep learning and keep writing. An alternative is to reach out to an Eratosphere poet or two with a poem via PM and see if that person / those people either think it's worthwhile, or can help you make it better.

[Barbara Baig]

Hi Lydia,
It was brave of you to make this post. While I'm not as experienced in poetry as many folks here, I do know a lot about ways to learn. Perhaps I might be able to direct you to some helpful books. If you're interested in metrical poetry, feel free to pm me.

Barbara

[Susan McLean]

Lydia,
You have seen the kinds of reactions that poems tend to get, so you know that you are likely to get some harsh criticism, but also (probably) encouragement from some. Ask yourself whether you have enough sense of yourself as a poet to be able to stand up for what you believe in about your poems, but also willingness to learn, so that you can make changes if they make sense to you. Either extreme, the constant caver or the belligerent defender, tends to come to grief here. If you want to learn to write metrical poetry, be willing to learn the rules and the terminology. Remember that the poem is always your poem, so you don't have to take anyone's advice, no matter how published or respected that person may be. As you get to know the various critiquers, you will come to see whose standards are most in line with your own, which will help you decide how seriously to take their advice.

Susan

[Charlotte Innes]

Dear Lydia,

I think Susan nailed it. In a nutshell. I can't think of anything to add really. You learn a sort of navigation technique on the Sphere--or around the Sphere! Steering your own course, but being open to what comes your way.

And I do think what Shaun said is true. Keep reading like crazy and learning. I learn as much--sometimes more--through critiquing other people's poems, as I do from their critiques of mine. But most importantly, read a lot of really good poetry off the Sphere. Take poems apart. Ask yourself how they work. Mimic other poets--just to see how it's done. And if you're interested in form, focus on that. Experiment. Try out a few on your own before you post.

I'm very moved by your honesty, and your humility--not to mention your eagerness to learn. It IS a big step to start posting. I was scared to death when I started. Actually, I was even scared to critique. But a determination to get better kept me going through lots of ups and downs.

I think if you stick with it you'll be fine.

All best,
Charlotte

[John Whitworth]

You say your poems are bad. How bad is that? If you have written anything in traditional form then send it to me and I will say something. No traditional forms and I have nothing to say. I don't judge. I just have nothing to say. But a prentice sonnet or something like that. I do.

What you need is a book showing you how to write in traditional forms. There are many but mine is the best for someone like you. Writing Poetry by John Whitworth. You can get it from Amazon. It was written with you in mind after I had taught doing just what the book says for many years. If you have written a sonnet that seems to keep to the rules then send it to me.

I suspect your poems are better than you think they are. Some people write terrible stuff and think it is great but they are nearly always men for a start.

[Tim Love]

I attend venues where I can do no wrong. I attend others where I'm out of my depth. I use the former to boost my confidence so that I can cope with the latter. I only try the latter with my best pieces and when I'm ready/able to learn from the responses.

I read and I write. I read lightly as well as critically. I make notes on each book I read.

All this happens in parallel - I don't look upon these different venues/activities as on a one-way route. The proportions vary - you'll have to work them out yourself - but keep your options open. Sometimes I don't write for a while; some people I know don't write for years. And I don't forget Peter Sansom's quote - "You start by writing, don't you? And then you get over that and become a reader"

[David Rosenthal]

Lydia,

I recommend two competing attitudes. First, be willing to change or abandon things you are fond of if the feedback suggesting it resonates for you. Second, don't feel obligated to change a jot if the feedback does not resonate for you. In either case, avoid apologizing, defending, or explaining too much -- just say thanks and then revise or don't.

Also, recognize that courteousness is measured on one axis and usefulness on another. Don't let jerky, insensitive feedback keep you from recognizing useful suggestions imbedded in it, and don't let warmth and tact lead you to adopt changes that don't make sense to you.

I would also be happy to recommend some books if you want, just PM me.

David R.

[Adam Elgar]

Hello Lydia,
You've had some excellent and generous responses from people who really know there stuff.

But I'll throw in my couple of coins just so you have a direct answer to your question:

Originally Posted by Lydia Stamato

how tolerant is this place of poems that really suck?

The answer is - it isn't. I think we need to be blunt about that. If you post garbage you'll be told so in crisp terms, and it will be pointed out to you that this isn't a forum for beginners. But I suspect that John is right, and that your work isn't nearly as bad as you think it is. Do take him up on his kind offer - if form is your thing.

[Roger Slater]

If you really think your poems suck, you won't be shocked or surprised if people share your opinion. The problems generally arise only when the poet thinks more highly of her work than do those offering comments. In other words, the question of tolerance is more a question of how the poet tolerates negative critiques than how the critics tolerate bad poems.

There are several highly regarded members who are excellent poets whose debut at Eratosphere was less than auspicious. Their work was severely criticized, yet writing came naturally to them so they didn't lash back or react with anger, but simply stuck around and got better.

Welcome.